Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince

[drea]

<span class="ev_code_WHITE">I dunno kids. She seemed pretty set on dumbledore being dead. But hey, who knows, right? Well, other than JK.</span>

It's hard to keep second guessing everything!

[Peter Murray]

Tatiana said:
<span class="ev_code_white">When Harry and Hagrid go back to Dumbledore's body Harry thinks he looks like hes sleeping because his eyes are closed. But in GoF all 4 victims of Avada Kedavra (Ma, Pa and #1 Son Riddle and Cedric Diggory) eye's are wide open after their deaths. JK makes special mention of this in both of the scenes where the dead bodies are being discussed.</span>

<span class="ev_code_white">That may not mean much - Cedric was looking around for something when he was killed, the Riddles were caught by surprise. All four of them probably just had their eyes open. Dumbledore knew what was coming, so he may well have closed his eyes to avoid seeing it.</span>

Fox said:
<span class="ev_code_white">A question about the death : I've been thinkking about this for a while now and was wondering why JK concentrated on Silant spelling, would it then be possible for snape to say a spell but silantly say another and thats the one that is caste? in that case did he really proform the killing curse??</span>

<span class="ev_code_white">I wondered that. However, I think he did cast it - maybe the potion's effects were worse than Harry realised, and he was dying anyway.</span>

Also, <span class="ev_code_white">I worked out from past descriptions of the castle that the body fell fourteen stories onto the grass (not as bad as falling onto the stone steps I'd've expected from OotP). It seems unlikely that the body would look as if it was 'just sleeping', after that fall. (Don't forget, a 12-foot-tall half-giant seems to be able to walk along the corridors without too much of a problem - the ceilings must be fairly high.)</span>

[FireWitch]

I don't know...
On the one hand, JKR talks about wanting to make Harry completely alone (as far as elders/mentors)...
On the other hand, she's stayed very close to literary tradition and NORMALLY the fallen mentor returns in some form (Gandalf returns in Two Tower, Obi Wan Kenobi comes back as a ghost...)
My best guess is some kind of ghost/portrait thing where we might get a glimpse of Dumbledore (and possible Sirius, James, and Lily)...

At the moment, I'm more worried about who was killed to make each horcrux...Voldemort seems to be very fond of symbolism so these are going to be "special" murders...
The first one has to be Moaning Myrtle (the first person he ever killed)...she became the diary...
The second one is his father...that went into the ring...
One will be a close friend/lover of Voldemort...maybe friend isn't the right word (Voldemort has no friends) but someone who THOUGHT that he/she was close to him...
Another will be a political killing...someone killed to gain power...
Not sure about the others...but we definately ought to look over the list of people who have been killed...

[Nella]

Ahhhh! This topic took sooo long to read.

In any case. This book was probably one of the best yet. I can't really compare Ootp to hbp though... They were so different, ootp was full with constant fighting etc. when hbp was more of a... I don't know, kind of like a preperation for the 7th book.
Though I have to say, I loved the shippers. It was a nice touch though I can't help but feel JKR only did it because she didn't have anything else to do. Still, I swore from the very beginning of the 5th book that Lupin and Tonks were gonna end up together. And guess who was right! OOO I'm so excited. Dumbledore's death was pretty expected, not like Sirius's, which caught me by total surprise. I still sobbed during both deaths though. *Blushes*

The Horcruxes interested me a lot. And omgomgomfg! I got the EXACT same thought that Harry was one of the Horcruxes. Whether it was intentionally done or not, I don't think Voldomort would have had much of a connection to it, I come accustomed to thinking because there was another living breathing thing in the horcrux, aka harry. Possibly why Voldomort sees the need to keep Nagani (sp) so close, so he doesn't loose touch with the knoledge of the snake being a horcrux.
Though I'm sooo mad that the locket wasn't really the real horcrux. Harry and Dumbledore worked SOOO hard to get at it. Dumbledore literally gave his life for it. That scene when Harry had to force-feed the potion to Dumbledore was really disturbing, I still have marks in my hands from my nails because I clenched my fists so hard during the whole time. It was so awful watching Dumbledore act like that.
I...HATE...SNAPE! Well, I never trusted him anyway. Caused by Dumbledore's only weakness, to try to see the good in anyone, which was brought out in this book, and I sadly agree with it, he was fooled by that slimy, greasy, filthy, rotten pig of a character who NEEDS to learn how to wash his own hair! Dumbledore was NOT planning to die, Snape would have killed him even if he hadn't made that unbreakable vow, and he made Dumbledore PLEAD! What made me smile was that he seemed relitivly broken once he did it, like he couldn't stick around to finnish the job, but ran off like the coward he is right after he killed him, like he just realized he made the biggest mistake in his whole freaking life and had no way of repenting it. I don't care what anyone says about Dumbledore wanting Snape to kill him and keep his cover, its total bull in my way of thinking. Dumbledore knew Harry and he weren't finnished, there was no way he would _ask_ to die. The killing curse isn't one that can be fake, since its an unforgivable curse, which I don't think can be dodged around like that. They were made to be done when one means nasty buisness, and thats exactly what Snape was up to...

One things for sure, I can't wait for the 7th book.

______________________________________________
member of the DDFQOTW foundation
Commited Fratcha-Bruta
Forever and Always
Nella

[Fox]

I...HATE...SNAPE! Well, I never trusted him anyway. Caused by Dumbledore's only weakness, to try to see the good in anyone, which was brought out in this book, and I sadly agree with it, he was fooled by that slimy, greasy, filthy, rotten pig of a character who NEEDS to learn how to wash his own hair! Dumbledore was NOT planning to die, Snape would have killed him even if he hadn't made that unbreakable vow, and he made Dumbledore PLEAD!

I was kind of thinking that JK wants to give that Impression to her readers, I was thinking that at the end he will die but then a revelation will be made and all that he has done is seen differantly, That does not make sense let me try again. Maybe by looking like the less likly person mybe he was the one working closest With D??? Maybe, god it still does not make sense! I need food and a third re-read!
Fox

kk, srry if I sound mean, but Snape's my fav. character, so I'm a bit odd when it comes to him :P now....

Dumbledore was NOT planning to die, Snape would have killed him even if he hadn't made that unbreakable vow, and he made Dumbledore PLEAD! What made me smile was that he seemed relitivly broken once he did it, like he couldn't stick around to finnish the job, but ran off like the coward he is right after he killed him, like he just realized he made the biggest mistake in his whole freaking life and had no way of repenting it. I don't care what anyone says about Dumbledore wanting Snape to kill him and keep his cover, its total bull in my way of thinking. Dumbledore knew Harry and he weren't finnished, there was no way he would _ask_ to die.

How is Snape a coward for killing the person Voldermort was afraid of? And, he did it not only for himself, but for Draco... And, he ran to try to get Draco to saftey, he didn't stick around to try and gloat.

And, you said DUmbledore wouldn't ask to die, well, he wouldn't ask to live either... Whatever happened to death being the next great adventure? And, he started pleading as soon as Snape walked into the room... And Snape didn't go on to rub it in that he was going to kill Dumbledore.

Well, sorry for the rant, :P I really dislike the idea of her brining Dumbledore back, but a good theory is a good theory I really don't want Snape to die (I'd have to force myself to finish reading) but, I also think that Harry might end up killing Snape, and then finding out Snape was innocent, it would really mess Harry up, and it's one of those things that always happens to him :P

Stupid GoF trailer, ending with the whole "there will come a time where you will have to choose between what is right and what is easy" now Im thinking in circles :P whats easier, killing Dumbledore or not killing him, and the possible consequences of both :P but, the "what if" game sucks, and getting into that is a bad idea :P so, Im trying to cut that line of thought off imeadiately.

[kaiba4ever]

Dumbledore doesn't belive that death is the worst fate. He believes it's the next great adventure. He didn't fear death like Voldemort does, on the contrary he seemed to accept it. Throughout the book Dumbledore seemed his weakest and tiredest yet. He probably knew that his time was running out.

On the one hand, JKR talks about wanting to make Harry completely alone (as far as elders/mentors)

Through-out the series, Harry had been rescued by Dumbledore and others. In the first book, Dumbledore saved him. In CoS, the phoenix and hat saved him (sent by Dumbly). Etc for the rest of the books. Dumbledores always there for him, shielding him.

Dumbledore realized that he should have told Harry the prophesy before the end of book five, and he felt stupid about not doing so. But why didn't he realize that protecting Harry from his own fate would be just as stupid? I mean, if Harry was MEANT to kill/be-killed-by Voldemort, then why not let him fight? Sure, at one time he was too young, at age eleven, but if he hadn't been killed, would he have EVER let Harry fight?

Harry now has very few people left. All his main parenting characters are dead. Including Dumbledore and Sirius. He now is left with Professor McGonigal, the Weasleys, and Lupin (why does he always overlook Lupin?!)

When Harry and Hagrid go back to Dumbledore's body Harry thinks he looks like hes sleeping because his eyes are closed. But in GoF all 4 victims of Avada Kedavra (Ma, Pa and #1 Son Riddle and Cedric Diggory) eye's are wide open after their deaths.

Probably because Dumbledore's much too dignified to die with his eyes wide open and mouth gaping.

Now that Dumbledore's dead, what's keeping Voldemort from taking over Hogwarts? Nothing. I bet something of the sort is going to happen in book seven... then again, it doesn't really matter, because Harry and all the important characters won't even be there.

Seeing his mother dead will bring Draco to the Order's side

I don't think such a thing is needed to change Draco right now. He was about to change sides when the ruined it and Death Eaters rushed forward. He "lowered his wand a fraction" and JKR basically said so herself in an interview. Draco breaks under pressure. It's apperent in his crying (XD I love that scene!) and when he tries unwilling to murder Dumbledore and the others. Draco's life is falling apart, his dad is held away, his mom is losing it (well, she WAS totally frieking out), and the Dark Lord was threatening to murder his family. Circumstances have definately changed since Dumbledore was murdered, but after Lucius is freed, with Voldemort have any need for Draco? It's rather unlikey.

That's enough Harry Potter rants and babbling for now...

I hope she HURRIES up with book seven! Waiting is no fun at all. *Is very impatient*

[db_pr]

I'm dissapointed with the role Lupin took in HP6.. it was too small, he didn't have a role at all, I was hoping his character would further develop.

[blue5star]

yeah lupin wouldn've been better with a bigger part. the he and tonks thing was kinda out of nowhere, but it was still my favorite of the books. it stinks that harry and dumbledore had just gotten closer than they had been in any of the other books and then he died. jk rowling must really be into killing the characters lately. i know the books wouldn't have worked out if they hadn't died, but it was still dissapointing. is the wizards at war book ever coming out?

[kaiba4ever]

I hope that Remus Lupin will have a bigger part in book seven too. He's my favorite character, and if he doesn't, I'll be very dissapointed. But it's not like Harry has many other adults left, besides the Weaslys and Lupin (well, there's others, like Tonks and the teachers, but they aren't as close).

I think Lupin deserves a lot more attention then he gets. He's actually a guite complicated character, but Harry never bothers giving him a thought. How does it hurt LUPIN when Sirius died? Lupin knew Sirius much better than Harry did, they were very close, like brothers. Harry barely knew him. And how does Lupin feel about all of his childhood friends dying and the only one left beytraying them? We never get to see the way Lupin feels, and Harry's much to selfish to bother asking. But with so few people close to him left, Lupin's bound to havea bigger role. Though I hope it doesn't include Tonks, like them getting married when Bill and Fleur do. I detest the idea of Lupin/Tonks so much. >.< And it's wrong. Lupin's like 40, and Tonks is like 20. I hope he drops her...

I definately hope that Lupin has a bigger role in he next book. I also hope Draco Malfoy does, except his big moment was in this book, and for all I know, he may even be dead by now. What need does he serve to Voldemort when the Dark Lord's got Lucius is back? And without Dumbledore and a good Minister of Magic, Azkaban is obviously going to be broken open, if it already hasn't been. I always wanted Draco to turn good. He ALMOST did in this book. (He "lowered his wand a fraction" when the other Death Eaters rushed forward and ruined it. If they'd been a second later, Dumbledore would've survived and Draco would've been with the Order.) But I guess Draco's chance has happened and gone. I wonder what happened after he ran off with Snape...

[db_pr]

Draco's alive... because in the 7th book Harry will turn gay and marry Draco. I know. I just know. XD

[Lisa]

Hey...three whole pages, wow. All while I was gone. This will take a while.

Did any of you see the article in Time magazine? It had bunches of our same theories! Copycats...

Also, there was an article in Disney Adventures magazine about the GoF set. It had cool casting info and set details.

Check out Dumbledore is not Dead. It's a cool site, even if you have no doubts about his death.
They bring up good points about his wand, and little things like that.

And apparently one site has a list of mistakes, including some that weren't mistakes, such as "fug" and "site". I don't know if any of this has been said, but oh well.

I really have to reread it. I read OotP in around 7 hours the day it came out, then the week after I was stuck at my dad's so I read it another six times. XD

No, I'm not obsessed.

One will be a close friend/lover of Voldemort...maybe friend isn't the right word (Voldemort has no friends) but someone who THOUGHT that he/she was close to him...

Probably the lady who owned the Slytherin cup. Or that's what I think.

I don't think of it as "Dumbledore asking to die". It's more like Dumbledore was asking for Snape to do what he had to.
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>If Snape didn't kill Dumbly, he would've been discovered as a traitor to Voldy
<LI>Dumbly was dying anyway. That potion made him weak.
<LI>If Snape didn't do it, one of the others would've...eventually.
<LI>Snape would've died if he hadn't killed Dumbly, because of the Vow.
<LI>Dumbledore isn't scared of death.[/list]
He may be alive, because:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>The focus on silent spelling - JKR always leaves hints.
<LI>His death was different than most Avada Kedavra deaths.
<LI>His body wasn't seen at the cremation - just something covered with a purple sheet that "Harry knew was Dumbledore's body."
<LI>Dumbly has a long connection with phoenixes, and JKR puts a VERY heavy emphasis on Fawks' singing.
<LI>He was asking Snape not to kill him...supposedly. He wouldn't beg for life, because he's not scared of death.
<LI>He's very powerful.
<LI>Dumbledore's portait was sleeping, which may mean he's not really dead.
<LI>Harry thinks he sees an phoenix in the smoke at Dumbly's cremation.
<LI>Take note that Dumbly was creamated. Phoenixes rise from ashes. Coincidence? Possibly. Probably not.
<LI>Snape is good. (This one's debatable, but I am admantant it's true.)[/list]
Dumbledore may be dead because:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>He fell off a tower. C'mon, that's a kind of hard-to-dispute death-causing incident.
<LI>He was probably hit with Avada Kedavra. That's also rather death-causing.
<LI>He was weak from the potion.
<LI>JKR said someone close to Harry would die in every book. Dumbledore fits that description.
<LI>Most of the emphasis was on lessons with Dumbly. Once again, JKR always leaves hints, and I think she's hinting that Dumbledore had taught Harry everything he needed to know.
<LI>He was asking Snape to kill him. (Unlikely, but maybe.)
<LI>Dumbledore now has a portrait in the office, along with all the other former headmasters. (Umbridge doesn't count, because that was more of a hostile takeover.)[/list]

That was waaaaay to long for a 1 am post. G'night.

[Kat]

Originally posted by kaiba4ever:
Lupin's like 40, and Tonks is like 20. I hope he drops her...

37 and and 23 actually. Not that big a differnce if you are in love - which the two of them clearly are. Lupin loves Tonks so much that he didn't want to marry her becuase he thought she deserved someone better. Lupin desreves a bit of happiness. Everyone he ever knew and loved has been killed; he was turned into a werwolf by one of the sickest, most twisted werewolves in the world; his and Harry's slightly more than teacher-student and more like father and son relationship from POA ended as soon as Harry realised he has a godfather and Harry now almost ignors Lupin complelty. Besides, Tonks may have a thing for older men.

[kaiba4ever]

Not that big a differnce if you are in love - which the two of them clearly are. Lupin loves Tonks so much that he didn't want to marry her becuase he thought she deserved someone better. Lupin desreves a bit of happiness. Everyone he ever knew and loved has been killed; he was turned into a werwolf by one of the sickest, most twisted werewolves in the world; his and Harry's slightly more than teacher-student and more like father and son relationship from POA ended as soon as Harry realised he has a godfather and Harry now almost ignors Lupin complelty

I agree that Lupin deserves happiness. He's my total favorite character, and I hate the fact that he's lonely and sad, but I just don't like seeing him paired with Tonks. Lupin thinks that Tonks deserves better than him, but I think he deserves better than her.

db_pr: Draco's alive... because in the 7th book Harry will turn gay and marry Draco. I know. I just know. XD

Yes, yes! XDDD If that happened, this insane slasher *points at self, and at otaku siggy* would be very happy indeed!

[Lisa]

Lately, my brain's been giving me rather odd bursts of information. Randomly. Like yesterday, it reminded me of a scene in the third book.

"...can to a basic Flame Freezing Charm."
(Referring to witch burnings.)

So even if Dumbledore WAS under the purple cloth when they burned his body, and if he was alive because the drink was Drought of the Living Dead, all it would take is a simple charm.

I was gonna say something else, but...I forgot because Steph and A are confusing me by saying it's storming where they are, and they live only a few blocks away. Then they lied and said they were in Ocean City. Now they suddenly logged off...maybe it is storming. Now I'm suddenly depressed. I HOPE it's storming, and I hope they're stuck there with the power cut off.