Looking for What is Lost

[Agent M]

Uh... I don't have enough time to read this whole thing (sorry guys) but I got the feeling that Roshaun is alive at the end of the book... he's not in Timeheart, and Dairiene went looking for something. Either he's dead inside of something.... or he's alive. I rather prefer the latter if you know what I mean And I was one of the Roshaun haters during the excerpts of Holiday... hmmm, guess he kinda grew on me lol.

[AlidaART]

PM--You're right, of course...Nelaid is just as much of a shipper as I am!

I think I've reached my verdict though--he is just not dead. He might be "dead" but I don't think DD would give us so many hints to the contrary if he was. Open ended is the exact right way to describe it.

(Hm...spoiler questions...I really need to come to the chats.)

[Mel]

i definatly think roshaun is still alive.
y would it go in so much detail?
unless of course to make even more twists and turns, but i dont think it would fit, i mean, Timeheart was empty.

and how did the silicon things know?! how did they know that he wasn't dead?!

and i really reallywant to know what is on that necklace... though i bet it probly shows her feelings for Roshaun....


but, yea, he's alive

[philosopherkat]

Tally up another vote for "Not Dead".

That whole situation was left way too wide open at the end of the book for DD to start the next one with "And it turned out Dairine was severely deluded and Roshaun was dead after all, even though he wasn't in Timeheart." Come on, now.

Eeeee, I love this whole forum for making learned Buffy and HP references! You guys make my day!

[AlidaART]

This forum is now officially my baby. 'Tis crazy.

Mel--The mobiles, you mean? I think they "knew" because

a) They're superubercrazyfast. Like, really. They're quick little buggers. They figure things out in miliseconds.

b) They're connected to Dairine. And I bet Dairine, being part of the spell, really did know all along that he wasn't dead. She just didn't want to set herself up for a huge disappointment, so she let herself stay ambivalent (or something to that affect). The mobiles, on the other hand, being, well, computers let themselves take in the facts more quickly than Dairine did.

[Tessandra]

I'm another one of the hopefuls for "Not Dead."

DD brought in a cast of characters in WH and killing off one as influencial as Roshaun in his second book seems so unlikely. Besides, why else would all the shippy behavior be apparent? Why would Dairine meet his parents and homeworld and hear his thoughts if he was going to be booted? Nope. Doesn't make sense. He is definetly still out there. Even if it is in a Spike like way. And the hole in Timeheart? Nita's mother was in Timeheart, Fred was in Timeheart, if you die, <STRIKE>you go to Timeheart</STRIKE> .

Otherwise, we'll all be sobbing in the next book.

[Peter Murray]

Why would Roshaun be dead if Dairine's done all that?

Because, dramatically, it makes it easier for the reader to identify with her loss if he really is dead. We've seen them sharing thoughts, we've seen them go from annoying each other most of the time to seriously trying to get along, we've seen Dairine meet his parents, and even get dressed up for him/them, which nobody else could get her to do. We've seen her introduce him to her "children".

In AWOM, we may see her mourn for him, in a different way to her reaction to her mother's death.

But she's probably right; he probably is alive somewhere. I'm just disagreeing that it makes no sense.

[AlidaART]

You are, of course, absolutely right, Peter. It is most certainly dramatic--I was about ye close to tears.

And yet again, though...there's just so much stuff that says he's NOT dead/bring-back-able (ouch. That was the only way I could think to put it, sorry) that it just seems terribly silly to say "Never mind all that, he's really dead, Dairine's gone crazy. And Nita too. Because she saw the dream. Yeah."

Speaking of which-- does anybody think Nita will be involved in the Search For Prince Unlikely because of her...er, abilities, or will it be a personal quest for Dairine? The way the aWoM summary is sounding, it seems like Nita will be pretty preoccupied, but it's possible she could lend a couple lucid dreaming hands.

[Selden]

PM mentioned "I haven't seen enough Buffy to realise they'd used an idea like that."

The "his soul was saved in the amulet" idea was revealed in Angel, actually, after the conclusion of Buffy (which showed Spike going up in flames).

Somehow, the amulet idea seems a little cliche. I'd like to think he was thrown bodily far, far away. And is having to face the LP there with a new group of companions.

[Peter Murray]

It's probably significant that Ponch's first reaction wasn't to ask what happened to Roshaun, but to ask "Where did he go?"

Dairine's first reaction was also to say "Where is he?" and she knew what the wizardry he was using was doing. (Well, she knew more about it than anyone else bar Roshaun.)

I think I saw about one episode of Angel. However, I know that Marvel Comics/Jim Starlin gave Adam Warlock a gem which stole the souls of those he killed with it. That was a long time before Joss Whedon wrote <STRIKE>Toy Story</STRIKE> Buffy. And before that, Michael Moorcock's Elric used a sword that stole souls - though the sword only used them for energy, unlike Warlock's soulgem, which preserved the souls inside it, so that he could meet his victims again.

[AlidaART]

Aha! And now we fall right back on my own initial idea: Roshaun is just Far Far Away.

I've said this, but the spell was, in essence, and transport spell. Thus, it is most likely that when Ro lost control of it, BAM! He's suddenly somewhere else. What I'd like to know is, is it in this universe? That's where Nita could come in handy, I think, and Kit too--he had all the experience with, er, The One and It's finding/creating abilities, ect.

"His Soul is Saved By the Amulet!" After due consideration, I just don't find that logical. Someone would've figured it out pretty fast if that was the case.

[Kristina]

I think that it will be mostly Dairine's own quest to find Roshaun, although Nita may help out a bit. Speaking of D/R...what Dairine said to him on the moon...does anyone know the story of Odin and Baldur? In the Errantry Concordance
DD mentions that what Dairine says to Roshaun is the writers version of what Odin says to Baldur before the pyre is lit. If anyone has an idea...PLEASE POST IT!

[Peter Murray]

To clarify:<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Posts about what Odin said to Baldur are Ok; they're not fanfic (unless DD is going to make them characters in an upcoming novel). Besides, Kristina seems to be asking for what the legend actually says.
<LI>Posts which tell anyone else's version of what Dairine said to Roshaun on the Moon are fanfic, and hence Not Allowed Here.
<LI>It's a riddle.
<LI>Hi, Kristina. I hadn't said Hi to you before.
<LI>DD plans to post what Dairine said to Roshaun on the Moon, in the Concordance.[/list]

[AlidaART]

And to be quite honest, I can't wait.

Of course, knowing DD, it'll probably turn out to be somewhat mundane and/or unimportant. And then the shippers will be...suprised. Didn't we see that coming

Though I would like to know what Odin said to Baldur--in the sense of the legend (if, in fact, there is one). But no fanfic, of course. Never, never. The place for that is fanfiction.net, and always will be.

[AlidaART]

So. I looked up the myth surrounding Baldur. On wikipedia I found this:

Bald(u)r is known primarily for the myth surrounding his death. His death is seen as the first in the chain of events which will ultimately lead to the destruction of the gods at Ragnarok. Baldr, however, will, as foretold in the Völuspá, be reborn in the new world.

Interesting. Could we draw a parallel between Baldur and Roshaun? Possibly. Personally, I think this is reading a bit too much into it, but you never know with DD, she's pretty damn smart like that Anyhow, I just thought I'd share, since it's an interesting story.

(As for the "what Odin said to Baldur" reference, it seems that Baldur was Odin's son, and by the time there were any pyres to light, it was Baldur's own funeral pyre. So, doesn't that technically rule out any conversations? Of course, that's why it's a riddle.)

[EDIT]

I just realized that what I just quoted was the article that PM linked. Whoops! Am I doing something wrong specifically quoting it here? I mean, none of it's fanfiction, so I'm clear, right? I was just saying what happened in the myth. Anyways. So here it is, folks.