Books

[Kathy Li]

Wanted to move the "this is weird" off-topic discussion thread about Alcott and Pratchett into something a little better-labelled, and general-purpose.

Tui, yeah, I know that Pratchett's Discworlds are self-contained enough that reading order isn't that important, but I've just found over the years that reading IN PUBLICATION ORDER (which is often very different from the order in which publishers will number books--look out particularly if you're reading C.S. Forester's Hornblower series), generally pays off big time.

With Pratchett, there are two advantages to reading in publication order: 1) he gets better as he goes (same for Sayers, btw), and 2) there is some continuity linking a few of the books.

That said, I had to skip for Monstrous Regiment and the only thing it spoiled for me was that now I know Sam Vimes is going to become a duke. BTW, no worries--it's terrific. The title alone had me cracking up, because I knew what the big "surprise" was going to be, and he was letting me know with a little wink. You can also tell he's had a lot of things to say about war and the military that've been saved up for a while.

Quill wrote: ... Actually, I thought the Chinese-American relationship to be remarkably forward-thinking for that time period, but I'll admit I'm no history buff. The characterizations of the Chinese, on the other hand, are pretty bad. I had trouble with Meg as a wife and mother though; where'd all her good sense go?

And papercrane answered:
That one scene in Eight Cousins? Forward-thinking? Well...that's not the word I would have used to describe it...

Yes, but papercrane, you and I (and Maxine Hong Kingston for that matter) are more likely to have that scene burned into our foreheads because we are Chinese-American. Quill, forward-thinking isn't actually part of it--it's historical fact that the rich on the West Coast in frontier days were generally raised by Chinese servants (few women, no men wanted to be servants--except the Chinese), and would become affectionate to the individual. Or, to put it into another idiom, it's like the "Mammy" relationship in the South.

[This message was edited by kli6 on 03 October 2003 at 12:57.]

[papercrane]

Yay Pratchett!
Hey, has anyone out there read Douglas Adams's Hitchhiker's Trilogy? And if they have, have they ever gone to the website? And if they have, have they ever played the online HHGG Infocom Adventure? And if they have, how do you get the babel fish? (It's so annoying. I covered the hole with my dressing gown, put my towel over the grate, put the satchel in front of the lower-half-of-the-room-cleaning-robot-panel but can't figure out how to stop the small upper-half-of-the-room-cleaning-robot.) Also, how do you open that one door that Marvin goes through in the Vogon ship, the one that requires a sign of intelligence?

"That's right," he said. "We're philosophers. We think, therefore we am."
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
*Look kindly upon the decaffienated one*
http://pub15.ezboard.com/ftimeheartf...opicID=3.topic

[Kathy Li]

One word, papercrane: junk mail. Took me *hours*, and then I found the walk-through. Sigh. Good memories. I was never much on reading Adams. I liked the radio series best.

[papercrane]

Oh wow! I am indebted to you forever! *is ecstatic*

"That's right," he said. "We're philosophers. We think, therefore we am."
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
*Look kindly upon the decaffienated one*
http://pub15.ezboard.com/ftimeheartf...opicID=3.topic

[Birdhead]

kli: yes, good point, though I still think that, unless you're pretty sure of the reader, do NOT start them on tCOM. (Speaking from experience. I started my best friend on it and, well, when she got to the Pern parody she practically threw it out the window and wouldn't touch it for a year. We had to do some very,very fast talking to get her to try Jingo. ) *is thinking* I think it's because a lot of the point of tCOM is that it is, in part, parodying (arg. Sp?) the traditional epic fantasy. If the people you start it on are _not_ interested in fantasy, they won't neccesarily like it. (In fact, much of the Wizard series has this problem.) A case in point is my brother, who I started on Jingo. And _now_ he likes them- but I don't think he would have so easily. Or my other brother, sister, and mother, who read Maurice together. (Whihc has helped a lot, ) Maurice is a _good_ introduction.
T

Tuibird in Aotearoa
Ahahahaha, Ahahahaha, Ahahahaha!
Spelling Freak and Typo Queen

[papercrane]

I'm in the process of SUCCESSFULLY navigating the HHGG game! *is so happy* Walk-throughs are good...I walked through the entire game of Riven (second Myst game)

"That's right," he said. "We're philosophers. We think, therefore we am."
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
*Look kindly upon the decaffienated one*
http://pub15.ezboard.com/ftimeheartf...opicID=3.topic

[Kathy Li]

Well, I did fine, starting with The Color of Magic, so I think it depends on the reader's personal tastes. Some folks like starting at the beginning. For most of my non-fantasy reading friends, I'd probably start them off with Wyrd Sisters mostly because my friends and I are Shakespeare geeks. The amount of Macbeth that goes into Wyrd Sisters is tremendous and tremendously funny.

And yeah, The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents is a terrific first Pratchett for anyone. It's too bad that the BBC4 Radio Drama site took down the radio adaptation. I giggle everytime I think of Dark Tan talking like Sean Connery.

papercrane: er... this is the "Books" thread? [And wasn't there a computer games thread way back when?--maybe it's still there and you can bump it.]

[papercrane]

I think The Color of Magic was the first one, though...right?
I need to get the rest of the Discworld novels. I've only read about half of the books.

"That's right," he said. "We're philosophers. We think, therefore we am."
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
*Look kindly upon the decaffienated one*
http://pub15.ezboard.com/ftimeheartf...opicID=3.topic

[Birdhead]

kli- yeah, but I'm guessing that you had already read at least some fantasy, probably some epic too- unlike my brother. Very Anti-Fantasy ("It's for girls", apparently.) But he's 14. So.

Yeah, I think that he uses each "group" for a different purpose. The Wizards he uses for straight-up mockery (notably The Last Continent), The Witches for literature and stories (Wyrd Sisters, Lords and Ladies, Witches Abroad), The Watch for sociopolitical ideas (Jingo), randoms (like the Truth and Pyramids) for random themes (uh... newspapers? and religion) and I _think_ he uses the time and Death ones for abstracts. Philosophy, and so forth.
Only guidelines, I guess, but it's interesting. Say, where does Monstrous Regiment fall?
T

Tuibird in Aotearoa
Ahahahaha, Ahahahaha, Ahahahaha!
Spelling Freak and Typo Queen

[Kathy Li]

Yeah, papercrane, Color of Magic's the first one.

Well, Tui, not 100% sure, but probably MR's a Watch book. Vimes is in it, but only peripherally, but it's definitely socio-political. War. the military, and feminism in equal parts, I'd say. The title is your clue. It comes from an infamous essay, written in 1558 by John Knox.

[Quill]

Originally posted by kli6:

Quill wrote: _... Actually, I thought the Chinese-American relationship to be remarkably forward-thinking for that time period, but I'll admit I'm no history buff. The characterizations of the Chinese, on the other hand, are pretty bad. I had trouble with Meg as a wife and mother though; where'd all her good sense go?_

And papercrane answered:
_That one scene in Eight Cousins? Forward-thinking? Well...that's not the word I would have used to describe it..._

Yes, but papercrane, you and I (and Maxine Hong Kingston for that matter) are more likely to have that scene burned into our foreheads because we are Chinese-American. Quill, forward-thinking isn't actually part of it--it's historical fact that the rich on the West Coast in frontier days were generally raised by Chinese servants (few women, no men wanted to be servants--except the Chinese), and would become affectionate to the individual. Or, to put it into another idiom, it's like the "Mammy" relationship in the South.

[This message was edited by kli6 on 03 October 2003 at 12:57.]

Okay, makes sense. I just read it and thought, hey, here's a mixed marriage taking place with no one saying anything critical or prejudiced, cool--in fact, the community seems to accept it without a blink.

That's one of the few problems I do have with LM Montgomery--when the racial gaps show, though it isn't often. Italians and French-Canadians are the most common "second-hand" citizens. Wince, go on.

[Kathy Li]

Whoah. Mixed-marriage? Ok, I think I confused books. I honestly don't remember a mixed marriage in Eight Cousins just the very satisfactory chinaman. Putting in a mixed marriage would be forward-thinking, given that miscegenation laws would have been on the books, back then. Cool! And not TOO surprising given the Alcott background.

[Aurora]

...huh? What's wrong with mixed marriages?

I kind of feel obligated to... defend this? Ah *beep!*- what's wrong with interracial marriages? *somewhat insulted look*

If interracial marriages were somehow wrong, let's just say a whole lot of my friends would be very very sad.... hmm, I'd be too, come to think of it....

Hmm, LM Montgomery... I had to write a half page essay on her last week for History class- she was a Canadian... She wrote Ane of Green Gables, published in 1908, and that's pretty much all I know....... Frankly, Henri Bourassa and Dr. Emily Stowe were much more interesting....

Kitsune Rei

[Kathy Li]

Uh, Aurora, I think you misread what I wrote. We were talking about the appearance of a mixed marriage in a Louisa May Alcott novel as being very forward-thinking for a 19th century novel. Personally, I'm all for mixed marriages and hybrid vigor, given that my nephew's hapa.

Aurora, I know, Canadians always complain about having to study L.M. Montgomery because she's one of the "few" famous Canadian authors that's known for being Canadian. But I personally find her fascinating. One of the most interesting things about her is her journal--which she knew was going to be published one day, and which lends a certain slant to the proceedings. It was published in four volumes a few years ago, and it covers pretty much her entire life. More reading than you'd want to do for a simple school paper, but well-worth the time if you've got the interest.

[brokencello]

Oh good. Cuz I was like, Go Aurora! Bring him down! But then I saw your message. Mixed marriages are actually a good thing, I think. I mean, if it weren't for that, almost everyone I know would not be alive. L.M. Montgomery is really good, if you have the patience for her. Her book is really sweet and sad at the same time. It's a little like Tom Sawyer...a young and rather misfit girl having adventures. Anne of Green Gables is set in Canada, in the Prince Edward Islands I think. Anne is a red-head who would prefer to be raven like me, and thinks maybe her hair will get auburn. She dyes it black and it turns green so she has to chop it all off. Very sad. Life is good.

brokencello
the crinkled paper bag
"Life isn't like the movies, Toto."
--Alfredo, Cinema Paradiso