Wizardry, and how it relates to Physics

[Dragon Writer]

I once heard in a movie an explanation that might work: the theory says nothing can grow faster then the speed of light. it does not say that nothing can start OUT moving faster then the speed of light.
and i had a discussion about this at home recently, and i won't say that most spells don't take energy...but i still say SOME don't. At least, no more energy then it takes to talk. Once more, i got to convincing air to harden. Or even water to boil! the water and air have no ability to suck energy from humans. theire's no complex matrixes for transfering energy. In the case of the water, all you say is "Could you boil please?" the only energy coming from the wizard is that used to form words...not energy for the actual boiling itself. For the air, it's a bit more, but only because air's a bit more stuborn. It's still only the energy used in talking.
In OTHER spells, however, it would take your own energy, and those are the ones that have things like circles, and such in them, so taht they CAN take energy from you most likely. (and also so that you can go into specifics like placement, and time used up)

[A Traveller with Magic]

Please forgive any incoherence: I'm thinking as I type.
I don't think it'd be taking energy (in a physical sense) from the wizard personally; more likely the energy that was alloted to the wizard upon acceptance of the Oath. I'd imagine simply processing and speaking in an active form of the Speech (which is, in my mind, an applied form of mathematics) would take a lot out of a person. I'd also imagine that performing a spell would be a way of manipulating and transferring energy; hardening air, for example, would include persuading specific air molecules (perhaps defined within a certain space, or a specified number of molecules) to lose energy and sublime into a solid form. (If this is true, is there a way of manipulating thermal energy- perhaps building an almost-perpetual motion machine, or something like that? Or am I missing a key point?)

Worldgating! That's where I first encountered superstring theory (though gating maintenance involves the manipulation of "hyperstrings"). As for "physics on a grander scale", I think there was a quote somewhere- either from chat or one of the books themselves- that wizardry was a deeper form of science, or something to that effect. To me right now, it seems wizardry is meant more to be a tool for nurturing and maintaining the universe (universes?) and all things contained within, rather than a way of "sidestepping" things- though a spell might include sidestepping the natural laws.

[Dragon Writer]

no, it's not that, though it's a good theory. you forget, though, that the wizard often feels tired or hungry after some spells. (that was pointed out to me by someone) If the energy, or at least the energy that must be provided by wizards, did not come from the wizard him/herself, there would be no side effects such as that.

[nelina]

ha ha YR i know what you mean!! i'm in chemistry this semester too. it's really boring and we get to do labs but it doesn't involve really mixing of the elements and having a near-explosion. i think they do that on purpose?

i think that the amount of energy it takes to do something depends on what your doing.. maybe your right KK on the whole thing about the energy it takes to pilot it or something.. sounds good to me... then again i'm only in chemistry.

I'm in chemistry this semester too; but as far as the relations between Wizardry and science, speciffically physics, I think of magic as a shortcut, and far more humanly capable means, of accomplishing the same ends. It requires the same reactions and phsical/ scientific events to occur, so is in a sence, an advanced science. For practicallity reasons, though, I don't see why it would take a ton of mathematics for it to occur; since what one is doing is actually using the words and thoughts to make it occur, all of the calculations may not be necessary if you can reffer to them by another name. For example, fusion of element x to element y (vs. salfneilohne+sjfbnewajlke=anehljfhiloeha). If you understand the concept, and focus on and invoke the idea in your mind, it should have the same effects. Also, it may not be necessary to use the immence ammount of energy required to fuse the elements, if all you do is simply set them up to the point where they must fuse, and let nature do it itself. (I hope the example of fusion is simple enough) Using said exmple, lets say that in order to fuse, elements x &y must first come within 3" of eachother, and once they reach this proximity, they are guarnteed to fuse; then, reather than waste all the nergy required to fuse them, all one would have to do, is bring them within 3" of eachother, and let them fuse themselves. That can be apllied to any practical application.

I hope this makes sence, and excuse any typos, I type up to 63 wpm.

[Jacq]

I think wizardry is mathematical. I'm too lazy to dig for references, but there's a lot of information about spell structure and construction in the feline books. I always likened the spell in Rhiow's head (her "project") to a mathematical proof. She had it partially configured, but just couldn't quite see how to make x = x, so to speak.

Now that I think more of it... In To Visit the Queen, the cat-mummy spell through everyone for a loop because it defied the laws of energy conversion, or it seemed to, which is why nobody was quite sure how to use it. I think traveller had the right idea, though - Wizardry is an exact science, it just deals with forces as yet unknown and/or unmeasurable to "normal" science. Perhaps over the centuries, as some spells have become more useful or commonplace (like the "beam-me-up-Scotty" or the otherspace pocket) the Speech has adapted with some sort shorthand version of all the variables needed to make it work. I'm thinking of something here like a cross between a calculator and an acronym. The "shorthand" or the speech might be comparable to something like HTTP, or c/d=pi. You don't have to know HTTP stands for "Hyper-text transfer protocol" to use the internet, and you trust the results of plugging pi into the calculator because it's built to understand that symbol.
Did that make any sense? Ah well...

Of course, this whole thing is thrown for a loop if the local physical laws of a universe are malleable through the world's kernel. I don't remember WA very well (and it's the only one I don't own), but did they deal at all with the complete breakdown of reality and (by extension) wizardry by messing with that sort of thing? Personal universes (like Darryl's head) are probably more robust than the kernel of, say, our local universe.

(To be honest I've always had a hard time wrapping my head around DD's kernel concept. Any clarification from other readers would be appreciated.)

[Lazy Leopard]

I find it hard to think of "kernel" without thinking in computer terms about that bit of code which keeps everything else in line, so to me the kernels are the wizardries at the heart, that keep their world running according to the rules.

[errant wizard]

teleporting with wizardry

Two things:

1) with the lightspeed limit, speed is measured relative to space/time; meaning that it is possible to travel at greater than lightspeed IF spacetime is being messed around. this is usually seen between VERY distant galaxies etc, but since wizards can create a claudication, why not teleportation/faster than light travel?

2) about energy for teleportation: if we start with the premise in Eragon (that magic takes the same amount of energy as normal means), we have to allow for the jobs that can only be done with magic - how much energy does teleportation take without it? So i'd imagine it takes as much energy as to bend/tear/circumvent/do whatever to spacetime. acceleration would be a problem, but maybe you can get 'wizard's regenerative braking' to give energy back as you slow down?

[SilveredBlue]

First- yes, energy is currency, not only for wizards but apparantly for other species too. In WH, at the Crossings, Kit, Nita and Ponch eat alien food (blue! and when they pay for it, they find it had been already paid for by the student exchange fund- in energy.
Which seems slightly weird to me: food, ie energy, is paid for by energy? Doesn't that leave you in the same spot that you stared from?

Secondly, in Eragon the energy comes from the spellcaster himself. In YW they have a peridexis to give them the spell boost, although it still has a cost. In fact, now that I think about it, the wizard doesn't supply the actual spell energy for the bigger spells, but is the conduit for it (exhausting in itself) and pays either in installments or with a sacrifice.

Which makes me wonder: when Nita was saving Ronan by putting him in stasis (W@W), she used a lot of energy. A lot. So much that she almost permanently scarred her ability to channel power. Will she have to repay that? And with what? Hmm....*speculates wildly*...

[NickRyan]

About the whole traveling faster than the speed of light thing. What the wizards could do is step outside of time and back in at a different place this way they actually wouldn't be moving faster than anything. This is something I got from Orson Scott Card and his Ender books.

[estar9821]

Science fiction is just a playroom for science, where writers can take new science ideas, for which the technology is far in the future, for a test drive.

I was amazed at the amount of scienc in YW when I first started reading the series, since I thought it was just another fantasy series that never explains the magic. But this series was different, it explained some, if not all, of the processes taking place in its system of magic. I guess wizards use their own energy for smaller spells, and borrow energy for larger ones that would kill them if it took all the energy at once. If people keep getting new energy however, from eating and breaking down the food into energy, they could have enough to pay it back over time. Which brings up a question: In DW, Nita has to repay the energy from SYWTBAW by getting killed. So isn't doing a massive spell a death sentence? I mean, eveyone dies eventually, but this would guarantee it would come sooner, unless an Ed comes along. Why can't wizards pay it off over time, like an energy mortgage?

[SilveredBlue]

Yes, I guess they do get killed by a massive spell. Which is why they work together on the big ones so that they can pay it off.

I think, though, the the lifeprice is only required in a REALLY huge spell- a 'blank-check' one like the one Neets used. One that uses so much energy that there's a 'void' that needs to be filled right away rather than by morgage.

However, the Wellakhit wizards died from the sun intervention, so maybe 'morgage' is impossible. Unless they just got roasted.

[chocolate101]

Physics and Wizardry...Hmmm...

Well, as I can see, sine I've never even been to a single Physics class (yet), Wizardry does have a lot to do with the sciences... I myself could never become indulged in the sciences (probably because, at the moment, I'm not going into Advanced Earth Science...Darn you Ms. Parady!), I enjoy it and I probably will more once I get into physics. As a future architect, I have to take a number of math and science classes(cough*Physics only*cough), and as I've researched so far, there are many connections to the two subjects of Wizardry and Physics.

All I can say are these three things...

Wizardry connects to all around bases- Math for teh calculation within the Spell Diagrams - English for its' language and Speech - History for the connection between the past, present, and future to obtain the desired results, and science to understand what you wishes will affect in all time frames once completed.

Wizardry isn't for the faint of heart, and wihout one mastery of a subject, the sphere may crumble (but that's why wizards have specialties and group workings!).

And my science teacher sucks this year... Ms. Parady's class isn't hard, but with so little grades going into the grade book, I can never stay on top of everything!