Wizardry, and how it relates to Physics

[Tualha Bard]

Wizardry has an amazing amount of physics incorporated into it. Sure, it (wizardry) has to do with the Speech and math, but a lot of it is mathematical science. Physics figures in because a lot of wizardry has to deal with time and space, and the distortion or manipulation of it.
For example, world-gating, or even the "Beam-Me-Up, Scotty" spell, has to do with time and space (this is where the term "temporospatial claudication" comes in; "temporo": having to do with time; "spatial": having to do with space, and not just universe-space, but area-space; and "claudication": a pinch or snag of something). This is physics (note: physics, as defined by the Merriam-Webster online dictionary, is "a science that deals with matter and energy and their interactions").
So, is wizardry just physics on a grander scale? Did DD have this in mind when she started the YW series?
~
comments are greatly appreciated and a response is welcome anytime. :P

[spyells]

All I can say is that you made my brain hurt. I'm terrible at math. In fact at the moment I'm failing Chemistry. I know I couldn't be a wizard. I'm supposed to beam myself to the grocery store but then I end up coming out in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Told you I never got passed 2+2.

As to what DD had planned when she wrote the series you might just have to ask her that in her next chat.

Welcome to the forum Tualha Bard.

[PosiCat]

I've always seen magic as a back door, or at least a side door. It seems the universe has it's normal way of operating, with space, matter and energy and the usual way these interact. Magic becomes a way a person can sidestep some of these rules, and manipulate them in ways beyond their normal interaction.

I see it almost like a computer. In windows you can point and click, copy and paste, and do all sorts of things to the files you see there. Then you can jump to a DOS window, and you have a way to access things that isn't incompatible with the graphical windows, but in it's own way something completely different, that gives you new and powerful ways of doing things.

Yes, I'm a computer geek, why do you ask?

[Tualha Bard]

(Thanks for the welcome, Spyells!)

Anyways, so ... What I'm saying is, if we break down wizardry, what do we get? A lot of mathematics, of course, but then there are equations for balancing what goes where, as in, which energy is directed where and where a certain thing goes, or how and where something is displaced, then what replaces it.

Another question I have is this: what does a wizard do about his own level of energy? How much energy does a minor spell cost, as opposed to how much a major intervention? I'm guessing that wizards bargain off their energy for spells being completed because whenever a spell is cast, the wizard is slightly out of breath and/or tired (because the spells draw on their energy?).

We have our E=mc^2 equation, which states that energy is equal to mass times the speed of light squared. So that complicates things even more, and that's where the math part of wizardry steps in. We, as in the wizard, have to figure out our mass, multiply that by the speed of light, then square it to figure out how much energy we have to spend to find out if we need another person.

Now, I think that the manual does a lot of the math, so that all the wizard does is find out if they need someone, then recite the spell.

So yeah, is energy a wizard's "currency"?

~

as usual, comments and replies are welcome :P

[Emi]

Another question I have is this: what does a wizard do about his own level of energy? How much energy does a minor spell cost, as opposed to how much a major intervention? I'm guessing that wizards bargain off their energy for spells being completed because whenever a spell is cast, the wizard is slightly out of breath and/or tired (because the spells draw on their energy?).

I think that the amount of energy depends on what you want to use it for, because a simple transit can make just out of breath, but a far away transit (like to the Crossings) can make you feel like you ran three miles.

So yeah, is energy a wizard's "currency"?

Yes it is, because when Nita and Kit had to "borrow" energy in SYWTBAW, they had to repay it in DW. It's like a loaning system or something. I can't remember which book it was in.. But there was a part where Nita had to figure out the math for something.. maybe it was in W@W... It's been awhile since I've read that (I'm rereading the series). So back to the point.. Energy (I feel) _is_ a sort of "currency" for wizards.

[Rhi]

The way I've always thought about it is this: the universe has a set amount of energy; it can't be created and it can't be destroyed (law of conservation of energy). So each person has a set amount of energy that they can use, and to use more they have to borrow it from, um, somewhere. I think. But then they have to repay it. So yeah, energy is pretty much currency. Now, I don't know about the E=mc2 thing, I don't think wizards actually convert themselve to energy for their spells, or at least not all of them...Wizardry is pretty much described in the books as knowing the language of the universe and being able to describe something so that it does what you want it to do, creating that "spell always works" rule. Something has to fuel that spell, though, so that it's not just words, so wizards lend their own energy to what they want to change, or use, or whatever. And if the wizard doesn't have enough energy at the moment to fuel the spell, then they can borrow energy and pay it off with sort of a "long-term payment plan" or they might get a special assignment from the Powers to pay back the energy (like in DW). Okay, I think I might be repeating myself, so I'm going to stop now

[Dragon Writer]

it probably requires a certain amount of energy from the wizard, but energy is everywhere. WOUldn't be that hard to do spells...particular when a large part of it is convincing the items around you to do things for themselves! like convincing the air to become solid? it seems to me that's a bit more effort, energy wise, from the air then from the wizard.

And the relations to physics is probably no more then the fact that authors have to take in the laws of the universe the characters are in. That includes dealing with things like physics, which would be bound to effect anything like the magic described in her books. You can't very well teleport to the moon without taking in the laws of physics, after all...well, you COULD, but you'df loose some readers if you couldn't explain yourself how they did it later. :P

[kk]

Spyells, you're failing Chemistry? Chemistry's fun! I'm enjoying chemistry!

I enjoy math and science, and ever since reading this series, I've thought that Wizardry had some reality to it, in the scientific ways. I mean, no one really has tried bending spacetime (that I know of), except in movies. Right now I'm reading about cosmology and physics, and both say a lot about space and time. Lots of books and television shows talk about "wormholes" or "black holes" or many other "distortions" in the temporal/spatial continuum. I find them fascinating. This also reminds me of something said in the book Eldest, when someone (can't remember who, it's been a year since I've read it) said that to do magic, it takes as much energy from you, as it would take to do it without magic, like lifting something big, or starting a fire. I don't know how that would apply to transportation spells, though. I mean, how would someone do those without magic? Would the energy be taken from them that it would take to hand-build a space shuttle to take you to the moon? Or perhaps just the energy it takes to pilot it that far?

[Dragon Writer]

chemistary's alright...but it's kind of boring. we don't get to work with violitile chemicals, or do much of any REAL chemistry...all i want is to have a student blow up the chemistry room ONE time during a time period when everyone's outside, maybe even the guy who did it, because he left the chemistry on in the rush having been pulled away by classmates, and everyone's perfectly all right, and no one's in trouble. is that so much to ask? :P

[Emi]

ha ha YR i know what you mean!! i'm in chemistry this semester too. it's really boring and we get to do labs but it doesn't involve really mixing of the elements and having a near-explosion. i think they do that on purpose?

i think that the amount of energy it takes to do something depends on what your doing.. maybe your right KK on the whole thing about the energy it takes to pilot it or something.. sounds good to me... then again i'm only in chemistry.

[Rhi]

YR said: "like convincing the air to become solid? it seems to me that's a bit more effort, energy wise, from the air then from the wizard."
Yes, and the air has to get the energy from somewhere, so it gets it from the wizard. Energy isn't exactly everywhere, that's kind of the problem with entropy.

I like chemistry! I thought I was going to hate it (because I had summer homework for it) but actually my teacher's pretty good. Then again, I might be enjoying it because my class is absolutely insane (sometimes to the point of being totally annoying). It's weird, that class is one where there are people I absolutely love and people who I really can't stand at all, and that mix sort of balances out to be pretty cool. *shrugs*

[Dragon Writer]

acctually, it kind of would be...think heat. obviously, there is heat just about everywhere human beings go, since they're still surviving. that heat is energy. therefore, there IS energy just about everywhere. :P and the air would have potential energy probably it could gain access too, as well i guess...there are air currents, that's definately energy moving about within the air. I'd say it doesn't exactly NEED the wizard. ANd how do you think air's going to go about draining energy out of human beings anyways?

and we do have lab, too, it's just not that great...

[Rhi]

Wow, two topics in one, huh? *snickers* Yeah, my chemistry class hasn't had a lab in ages, all we've been doing is notes. I've had all the notes I can stand and more these past couple of weeks

Let's talk time dilation! In one of Einstein's theories of relativity (can't remember if it's the general or special), time is supposed to slow the faster you go, and nothing can go faster than light. Well, in YW we have a severe breach of this rule-the "beam me up scotty" spell. The wizard steps into the circle, says the words, gives the energy (yes, YR, they give the energy, read the books, and almost instantaneously arrive in their destination. How do they do it?!

[Tualha Bard]

Well, that's the thing, isn't it? It doesn't have anything to do with that theory.

Simply put, the wizard displaces the atoms in his/her body and puts them somewhere else. Think teleporter (atom accelerator?). You don't go fast; you simply go somewhere else entirely. The clapping sound of air rushing towards is because that air that was just there was taken with the wizard, and the whoosh of outward air that comes with the arrival of a wizard is extra air, or air that is being pushed away. See fig. 1.

Fig. 1. (note; the stick figure might come out wrong; bear with me.)

1.
(o)
(-|-) <~~~
(/ \)

2.
(o)
(-|-) ~~~>
(/ \)


it's just a relocation. displacement. Oh, and the trick to wizardry isn't the math or the physics; it's the Speech. obviously. : /

[kk]

I think that Einstein's theory(s) or relativity explain it perfectly. I've been reading about that (the phrase or fact that "moving clocks run slow") for a while in a different science textbook (I'm taking four different sciences this year in school, but that's possible, because I'm homeschooled. Biology, Chemistry, Physical Science, and Cosmology). Isn't there some equation somewhere that says if you simply slow down time, you can appear to appear or disappear? That's probably something different, though. There's also supposed to be some equation that has something to do with how much time it takes to travel from one place to another, or a certain distance, and if they were to alter that using the Speech, they could make it say that it took 0 seconds to travel from point A to point b, they could get there just as fast as it took to set up and recite the spell. Theoretically, of course. Everything in science seems so theoretical...