Ebook Readers?

[Jacq]

Does anyone have an eBook reader? If so:
1. What kind is it?
2. What formats does it support?
3. How is the battery life / memory / backlighting / weight / etc?
4. How much did it cost?

I really, really, really want one of these, but it seems like there's a bunch of them on the market and no clear winner. The Kindle is out for me since I'm Canadian, but the beBooks look pretty nice.

Ideally, I'd like something with a sturdy case/cover (so I can put it in my purse), light enough to be able to read in bed, and able to support lots of formats but especially .pdf and .lit. I don't care if it goes online, since I'd just be loading it up from usb. Cheaper is better for my situation right now, but if the best are most expensive I'd rather save up and get an awesome product later than buy something crummy now.

[Tuttle]

Well, its not one you could have the full capabilities of, like you mention, but
I'll talk about the kindle for other people.

I have had a kindle 2 for about a month now. I absolutely love it. The eink
screens are amazing to read on, and the basic web-browser over cellular has been
very handy for me in terms of looking up directions or such while on the way
somewhere.

1. Like I said, its a kindle 2.
2. It supports anything that is actually just a mobi file underneith - .mobi,
.prc, mobibook is based on a palm database (I think its that direction), so the
palm ebooks at least sometimes work with just changing the file extension.
There's amazon's slightly modified mobi too. It can't read drm-ed books that
aren't the amazon ones. It may be worth commenting that not all of amazon's
books are drm-ed, so some of them could be read on anything which can read .mobi
files, but it doesn't say if they are on the site, so you'd probably want to
stick to ones you can verify with someone who has the ebook to make sure you
could read it. There are converters from other formats to this, though how good
they work varies. I've had success with every format I've tried to convert, as
long as it was a text-based file to begin with - a math pdf doesn't convert well
into mobi, but a normal book, I've had no issues. We ended up doing a hackish
convert of a d&d book from pdf into images, and the images into images in a
mobibook. This doesn't work well, because of how the images work on a kindle,
you end up zooming into each page - but it worked enough to get it as a
reference book for our game. It also took more work than just using a converter,
but it is something you can do if you know the tools (it ended up being, take
each page out of the book, convert it to an image, then put all the images into
an html file, then convert that to mobi.)

3. Battery life is good - if you're running the very hard on it things (web
browsing, music) it lasts a day, if you have the wireless off and just reading,
then you get over a week.
There is 2 gb storage in the kindle 2. Unfortunately you cannot add anything in
by sd card or mini or micro-sd cards. That would be one thing I'd prefer to be
able to do.
Because eink screens innately can't have a backlight, I would strongly suggest
not getting any ebook reader which has a backlight, if you're looking at
spending a noticable amount. There is a huge difference between reading on an
eink screen and reading on an lcd. I have a booklight with a soft-clip to use to
read in the dark. I think some ebook readers have lights on the side to have a
light to read with.
For weight, the kindle is impressively light.
The case of it feels sturdy, it is nice. I have a neprene sleeve to protect it.

4. The price is one of the things that is one of the disadvantages. Kindles are
expensive - $359.

Personally, I love the eink screen, and personally love the webbrowser, but I'm
in the US.

[Jacq]

Thank you!

The Kindles look like they're top of the pile right now, but they're US-only, sadly. You can "trick" amazon into shipping you one, but the wireless won't work and you lose the advantage of the amazon store, so it's not worth the extra money for me.

I read online that for file conversions you have to email them to Amazon and they charge $0.10 to convert. Is this true?

[kk]

This is an amazing coincidence, since I just ordered an ebook reader about... ten minutes ago? Maybe five minutes ago? Anyways, never mind, "There are no accidents," right?

Anyways, my new ebook reader is the Foxit eSlick, and it's supposed to arrive in August, or late July, so... it'll be a while before I can give actual feedback on it.

But, if you want to look at the website for the company, it is here.

It cost $259.99, but the price probably will eventually go up to $299.99. It has a 6" eInk screen, and supposedly has a battery life of 8000 page turns. It comes with a 2GB SD card, and of course the cords and cables, and some headphones and adapters. And a CD of product software that can convert files to the right formats (it supports PDF and TXT).

Most (okay, all) of my ebook files are in PDF or TXT format, so I think it'll work well with them. I've also seen demonstrations of its PDF reflow function, which will work well with my small-typed files.

I'll be sure to write more when the device actually arrives in four or five weeks, and then I can tell you how good it is... but for now, it seemed like the best buy, to me. It has a lower price, and good PDF support (supposedly), and it's gotten good reviews.

Maybe when it comes, I'll make a video of it, showing how it works, so you can see; if you're curious.

[Tuttle]

I read online that for file conversions you have to email them to Amazon and they charge $0.10 to convert. Is this true?

No, if you want to email them to amazon and have them sent to the kindle, then it costs $0.10. It is also possible to email them to amazon, and have amazon send them back (by emailing a different address), and those you can load by usb. Or, there is getting one of many converters online, and using that. Calibre is one of those which works for pretty much any ebooks. There is also auto kindle for the kindle (windows only ) and the most commonly used mobipocket (also windows only, but works in wine).

I would say that there are probably converters available for any ebook reader you're wanting between pretty much all the ebook formats (without drm). I'm pretty sure calibre itself can do any of those, though it is incredibly irritating if you want to run in a cli because of requiring a gui (even if we're rare).

--

One other thing about the kindle to think about for other ebook readers. So, the kindle has a little keyboard but not all of them do. My thoughts on the keyboard - it can be useful for taking quick notes, but is in no way necessarily. If you like taking notes in the margin of a book, you'd probably like it, if you don't, then it may be useful or it may not be. I've been enjoying it for things that aren't normal books, but I liked the improved readability on (things like my d&d character sheet). I don't think its at all necessary, but think about whether you'd like that as well.

[Kathy Li]

I'm using Stanza and Kindle on my iPodTouch. Surprisingly useful, both free apps. Probably not what you're looking for, though. Definitely not the same as having an eBook reader.

[Jacq]

Oh wow KK. The eSlick looks... well, slick! I don't like that it doesn't natively support .html though. I couldn't find anything on the website as to whether it supported hyperlinks within a PDF document either.

Kathy, if I had an iPodTouch I would look into the Apps, but the closest I've got is an Aspire One, and it's a little too clunky to carry around in my purse

Thanks for the great suggestions everyone!

[kk]

I don't think it currently supports hyperlinks, but I've emailed the company, and they say that they're definitely looking into software upgrades that include more advanced features. Upgrades that could be downloaded from their website, and installed onto an already-purchased device, that is. It also doesn't support bookmarking right now, which is going to be a bit annoying if and until they upgrade it, but remembering what page I'm on is simple.

They have quick tech support, too. I emailed the company with some questions about go-to-page functions, and they responded back within 10 hours. With many companies, I haven't been able to get responses for weeks! So I know that they'll respond quickly, at the very least.

I really wasn't looking for many features in an eReader, I really just wanted something that could support PDFs and TXT, with mp3 as well for audiobooks. Also, it supports any printable files; there's software included to convert any file to PDF. I bet that programming supports html.

[SpacePen]

no book mark??

You're kidding. For upwards of $200.00 the thing can't bookmark your spot?

FWIW I carry a Palm Treo around to use as a cell phone all the time and I use the Palm ebook reader (in fact I read Duane's A Wind From the South that way).

I'm intrigued by the e-ink, thin profile, larger than a palm/smartphone screen ideas and I wouldn't turn down a kindle or a sony ebook reader if one happened to drop out of the sky into my hands, but if I'm going to shell out several hundred dollars it'll be to buy a new smartphone - on which I can read ebooks - and do a whole lot more than that, too.

This discussion reminds me of the "new Built-in Orderly Organized Knowledge device"....

[Jacq]

You make a good point, Spacepen, but my justification of a $250 ebook reader is that if I read 25 books on it, it's paid for itself.

And I love the thought that I can keep one small thing in my purse for the long commute to uni and change titles if I get bored. Though I'm not sure I'll take it in the bath...

[Tuttle]

I think what it means by not having bookmarks, is that it can't remember anywhere except your current place. I'm not sure, but I know in the kindle, you don't bookmark where you are always, it stores your current position, and you can have it remember other positions in the book which matter, which a bookmark. It depends on details on your plans on how important the bookmarking is. If you have multiple people reading off of it, the bookmarking is very useful. If you're reading things for classes which you want a reference to a past place, its very useful. If you are the type of person who likes to go back and read past parts, its useful, but if you just want to read the book forwards, the entire book, each time you read it, then it is nice, but not necessary.

Hyperlinks however, are something I do feel are necessary. Table of contents are formed by having a hyperlink to each chapter. Cross referencing is useful, and it would be nice if where in dead-tree versions, you are sent to a previous chapter or page, there is a hyperlink - I don't know if this is done, I've not read any non-fiction on my kindle. The table of contents itself is something I think makes it necessary. One of the things we did, was rather than putting all of the Lovecraft short stories on separately, we made a single book of all of them, and then you can use the table of contents to jump to whichever story you want to read. It makes it easier to look through the books on the device, when you group short stories, that would otherwise be separate.

--

For non-marketed as ebook readers - i enjoyed reading on the old Palms - they have nicer screens to read on. They're small, and you can't fit much on a page, but I much prefer them to modern palms, if someone is going to use something like that. I have a palm Vx - its from around 99, the battery still works, and I bought it as a cheap ebook reader. I got mine with a cradle, the stylus, and a case for $20, but that was at a techy flea market, so I'm not sure the pricing otherwise. I'm pretty sure its not much more on ebay, though it is somewhat more. My boyfriend got his at the same flea market a few months later with the stylus, the cradle, the charger, and the original manual and everything, for $30. These have really funny backlights - if you turn the light on then it goes inverted and is all green, but they're easier on the eyes to read with, though only black and a greenish not-quite-white. You can put plucker on this, and read plucker format ebooks.

[SpacePen]

palm ebook reader

i'm fond of the palm ebook reader because you can customize the colors somewhat so that it's easier on your eyes.

I've been thinking about downloading plucker in order to be able to use more formats for reading on the palm.

The other thing I like about the palm devices is the bible readers (there are a number of them available, but I like the open-source Palm Bible Plus). I get some strange and some envious looks from other parishioners on Sunday mornings when I pull out my cell phone, turn off the ringer and then proceed to read the morning's scriptures in one of several different versions off of my palm Treo.

[alla]

I've been starting to read ebooks on my iPod Touch, using Stanza. Its actually surprisingly good. I usually can't stand to read for very long at a computer screen, but being able to adjust where the book is being held makes a big difference (well, theoretically, I can move my laptop around and adjust the screen, but its nice not to have to deal with the attached keyboard). I've just finished reading Assassin's Apprentice by Robin Hobb, and I think I might have actually read it faster on my iPod touch than in book form. Its also going to get used to take my reading material for my holiday Being able to carry around a couple of dozen books in electronic form, rather than in paper is going to be great.

[Jacq]

Hyperlinks however, are something I do feel are necessary. Table of contents are formed by having a hyperlink to each chapter. Cross referencing is useful, and it would be nice if where in dead-tree versions, you are sent to a previous chapter or page, there is a hyperlink - I don't know if this is done, I've not read any non-fiction on my kindle. The table of contents itself is something I think makes it necessary. One of the things we did, was rather than putting all of the Lovecraft short stories on separately, we made a single book of all of them, and then you can use the table of contents to jump to whichever story you want to read. It makes it easier to look through the books on the device, when you group short stories, that would otherwise be separate.

Hyperlink support is a really big deal for me. Not just for table of contents, but for nonfiction work. Endnotes would be a nightmare if they weren't hyperlinked.

I guess you could work around this with a bookmark feature (if your ebook had one), by marking the beginning of the endnotes and going from there. That would also work for some of the fantasy works with a language index at the back, too. But this is why is seems to me that supporting .html natively is important, because it's the easiest way to have hyperlinks.

After reading the support forums for the eSlick, it looks like it's still got quite a few wrinkles to work out. I think I will save up for a few more months and go for either the e-cooler (style!) or the Sony reader (best in Canada right now?) The reason I'm hesitant about the older Palms is the battery life, and I'm not sure I'd like the green/black screen. I'm very much a "dedicated device" person. My phone doesn't need a camera or an .mp3 player, so I'd rather have the eInk screen and get the best ebook experience and format support.

[Tuttle]

I would agree with everything you say about the hyperlinks, except the native html support. The major formats for ebook readers currently seems to be mobibooks, which are encapsulated html. The kindle format is a special version of this, the palm books (not plucker) are a special version of this, and I'm pretty sure the other ebook readers focus on mobibooks too. In both those cases, special means, slightly obfuscated.

I have heard good things about the Sony reader in the kindle community - they seem to all prefer the kindle, but have it as the second best.

All the old palms that we've seen have been perfectly fine in battery life, though I can understand not wanting them to be a primary reading device. I can tell the difference between my palm and my kindle. However, using the palm actively, it still runs for multiple days before needing to be recharged, and minor use of it, it lasts for weeks. This is one which was sitting at low enough battery it couldn't turn on for a while before I bought it. The screens aren't bad, but again, you can tell the difference.

The dedicated readers are nicer, but the old palms seem to be the best I can find for cheap things. If someone wants something to carry with them for traveling, but doesn't have money, then I would recommend an old palm. However, the palm ebooks, not plucker ebooks, don't work with the old palms. I think conversion works by converting to html, and then from that to plucker, but I've been focusing more on the kindle, so cannot remember.