The Iraq war

[Peter Murray]

Originally posted by bradwart:
So, according to your reckoning, if you attend a Fourth of July celebration, it makes you American.
Somebody oughta tell the French.

What did that mean, anyway? Are you getting the fourth and fourteenth mixed up? The French celebrate Bastille Day on the fourteenth of July, the anniversary of the storming of the Bastille.

[db_pr]

When I said America meddled, I meant the Iraq War, then you said you didn't meddle with Osama Bin Laden?

Do you think Osama Bin Laden risked everything and now, if he still lives, has to hide in a cave for the rest of his life for absolutely nothing? Of course not! He fought against the injustice made against the Middle East. (I'm not going to defend him because I do not agree with the way he fought against injustice, yet that doesn't change the fact that he fought for his country).

FIRST, Osama Bin Laden fought against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, the United States helped, trained and funded this terrorist operation.

Then afterwards, when the defender turned into the opressor (*clears throat* USA *clears throat*), he started fighting against the United States.

The actions the US has done against third world countries are so many that I could not find them all in a week and neither would they fit in this post. I wrote a long post in the Israel/Palestine topic with some of the abuses the USA has done against the Middle East, but I am not entirely knowledgeable of that region, but if you still want to know how the USA has meddled in foreign conflicts, policies and economics, GRAB A HISTORY BOOK or go to WIKIPEDIA and start reading.

If you still think the USA never meddles, look these up:

1) The overthrowing of Salvador Allende, a democratically-elected president of Chile. The USA helped overthrow him and establish General Augusto Pinochet as it's DICTATOR. THE USA FOUNDED A DICTATORSHIP IN CHILE THAT LASTED FOR 17 YEARS. DURING THIS DICTATORSHIP MORE THAN 30,000 PEOPLE WERE EXECUTED, EXILED, TORTURED, INCARCERATED, FOR NO REASON AT ALL. What did the US do? Nothing. Augusto Pinochet let the US and its multinational corporations have its exploited money, if the US gets its money the murder of thens of thousands of people don't matter.

2) The occupation of Nicaragua by US forces, the establishment of a National Guard that was notorious because for human rights abuses and corruption (also in Nicaragua).

3) Also in Nicaragua, the dictatorship of the Somoza family, which lasted more than four decades and was marked with even more killings and corruption. The US supported this dictatorship even though it was as ruthless as it was exploitive. When they asked President Franklin D. Roosevelt he said "Somoza may be a son of a bitch, but he's OUR son of a bitch."
When a popular movement was starting an uprising against this dictatorship the US reacted with sending marines to kill these peasants.

4)In Cuba the helping of the corrupt and bloody BATISTA dictatorship.


Hell, these are just 4 specific ones. If you want to read more grab a history book and read the Latin American and Middle East sections. You can trace almost every economical and political problems to the US. Not all of them, but many.

[Small town]

WEvery leader has his problems. I like Bush and I am proud. I have a cuzz that is going to get deployed so your not the only one. Castro's time in Cuba needs to be cut short very soon. He is a super arse. Im going to shut up before I make somebody mad.

[db_pr]

Every leader has his problems, every country has his problems. The US just happens to bring more and more.

The primary reasons Castro's Cuba is so poor is because of the US' commercial block on Cuba, yet that still haven't stopped the people of Cuba to became a world potency in medicine and education.

[bradwart]

Hmm. It seems my posts have proven rather....controversial. How suprising.
Let me make a statement with Fourteen Points.
Similar in name to President Wilson's Fourteen Points.


One. Just because a leader makes one mistake doesn't make he/she a horrible leader.

Two. We Americans are not "stuck up" as you so boldly indicated.

Three. Before critisizing a country and looking like a hypocrite, observe the status of your own country.

Four. I merely told my side of the story in my first post. Those things were truths. That does not mean you have to accept it. Then, you proceded to become rather violent. However, I am not offended. I rather enjoy being referred to as "the bad guy". It's one of my favorite roles.

Five. Small Town, I wholeheartedly agreed with you, and support your cousin. I had an uncle over in Iraq for two years.

Six. db_pr, you seem to be my biggest opponent.
No offense, but I'd love to hear your reasosn for involving yourself in American buisness.
Very few countries are involved in Iraq, ex. Austraila and GB. Despite the face that Puerto Rico is an American Protectorate, I'm sure many people would rather not have America down there. If I was president, I would cut off all support to every country, and no longer "meddle".
This would include troops, money, supplies.
It would be most interesting to see how the world tore itself apart while the Americans played their so called "stuck up role". The protectorates would be dumped, including your little country.

Seven. The block on Cuba is to remove Castro's resources. The American government doesn't have to defend that decision. As long as the Supreme Court and the American People remain vigilant, we will never have to worry about revolution, something that other countries have trouble seeing just how well it works. Nor about unauthorized changes to the Constitution.
We have no worries about dictators, oppressive government, or presidents for live. We gave the government the power, and we can take it back just as easily.

Eight. President Bush is a great American. He has done so many great things. The Patriot Act. Banning Stem Cell Research.(Abortion is murder, twist it how you will). The Missile Defense System (which was successful not to long ago, if you heard). Placing John Roberts and Samuel Alito on the Supreme Court.
Sandra Day O' Conner needed to go. she did not follow rules in the fact that justices are supposed to consult the Constitution, not internaional law in making a ruling.
Hpoefully, Bush can get laws banning abortion and Gay Marriage passed, since recent events have shown how people feel about it. South Dakota rightfully banned it. Not to mention getting laws forcing evolution down everyone's throats repealed.

Nine. Instead of poop, perhaps I should have used "Imbecile" or "stupidity". Sorry for insulting your rather tiny brains.

Ten. If you read carefully enough, you will realize that someone who you refer to as immature or unintelligent could not have written these words.

Eleven. I realize that The First Amendement gives freedom of speech. If I did not think about that right, I would not be writing these words.

Twelve. Gryphon, I was referring that we would be in a good position to invade Iran if they launch, not who was here. Get it straight. Do I need to use baby words?

Thirteen. Ag Fish. "I think all of us know Bush did wrong"? Excuse me? Did wrong? Well, evidentally, thah excludes the millions of Americans who know Bush did right.

Fourteen. Dee. (this is going to cause people to have convulsions over this one). You can take your apologies and shove them. I do not need any pity.

Thats all I will write for now.

[db_pr]

DB's Fourteen Replies

1) True, of course, when a leader makes twenty in a row, you know something's wrong somewhere.

2)Not all of you, yet more than half.

3)I criticize the United States because my country is in bad condition because of them.

4)I don't know what you're referring to, but the majority of what you've said so far are not "truths".

5)Uh... I don't. And... why did your cousin enter the military in the first place?

6)My reason for getting involved in America business?

Well, to start with, I live in american soil.

Despite the face that Puerto Rico is an American Protectorate, I'm sure many people would rather not have America down there. If I was president, I would cut off all support to every country, and no longer "meddle".

Well you got ONE thing right. My whole family and lots of people over here have fought for decades for the independence of Puerto Rico. The complete separation from the United States. If that happens it will be the best day in our lives, probably. Yet NorthAmericans tend to prefer money over a country's freedom.

I love your plan for when you're president. Maybe it will actually stop America from poking their noses where they don't belong. Because when that happens every poor, third world country will be better. An example of this is Venezuela. Since Hugo Chavez closed down the exploiting multinational corporations, the country's illiteracy rate has gone remarkably down (as well as in Cuba, when Fidel Castro took power) The annual income has increased, and lifestyle in general is better. Thanks to USA leaving the country.

My greatest wish is to see Puerto Rico freed from the capitalist, neoliberalist, imperialist grasp of the United States greed machine.

7) The block on Cuba was made to remove Castro's resources. It failed miserably, the Cuban country, instead of being abandoned, has received solidarity from around the world. The american image has been further damaged.

8)Bush stole the 2000 election (so much for your democracy). I think it is clear what people want, since Bush has less than 40% approval rate, his ideals and decisions are not what the people are seeking.

9) Not gonna argue there.

10)Meh, perhaps... don't think so, though.

11)Your ignorance is amusing.

12) The United States is the country with the most nuclear weapons, yet it is the country that most fights against having them. (Hipocrisy) Iran has every single right to have nuclear weapons.

13)Your opinion also excludes the 60+% americans who know Bush did wrong. Numbers MEAN something, you know? You can't just come talking about something you heard on your barn.

14)You do not need any pity, you need some more IQ points and some self-esteem.

[wildflower]

Sounds to me, Brad, like your view is that anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot.

My dad was in Iraq for nearly a year. My cousin who I've never met is in Iraq. I support the troops; that doesn't mean I support the war.

Instead of poop, perhaps I should have used "Imbecile" or "stupidity". Sorry for insulting your rather tiny brains.

Ten. If you read carefully enough, you will realize that someone who you refer to as immature or unintelligent could not have written these words.

I don't agree that you're unintelligent, exactly. However, judging by your actions in the chatroom and your ridiculous insults thrown randomly about at every possible opportunity (not to mention the wording of some of the aforementioned insults), I would definitely say that yes, I do view you as immature. I refer you to my opening sentence; attacking someone whose views are different than yours purely on the basis that they are different is not incredibly mature. You can disagree, naturally, just don't be an ass about it.

Fourteen. Dee. (this is going to cause people to have convulsions over this one). You can take your apologies and shove them. I do not need any pity.

And yet you still claim to be mature. Convulsions for telling someone to "shove" their apologies? Please, don't assume that anyone would have convulsions over you being immature yet again.


I agree with Diego.

[bradwart]

Wow. You prove your stupidity. Again.
Not only do you mock the United States, The only world superpower, but you insult my Fourteen Points. Your "little country" sucks up every dime it can get it's hands on.

Barn? How Amusing. Your opinion shows your cerebral cortex's inefficiency.

Neoliberalist? Interesting choice of words from someone from a country full of panzies.

More IQ points? 168 not enough? Wow.

[db_pr]

And you prove your inability to be able to carry on an argument in a peaceful, factual way, as well as your ignorance for not being able to summon up anything more than insults to backup your opinion.

Some rich men suck up the US money, lots of people are fighting against that. You wouldn't know 'cause you don't check the facts before you start shouting the wrong things.

Neoliberalist? Do you even know what it means? Look it up.

168? Heh, you got outsmarted by a guy with 152. You appear to be less than 130. Are you sure you read the number right?

[bradwart]

Here we go. Peaceful, factual way.
Your country is tiny.
America is invincible.
North Korea needs to be bombed.
So does Iran.
Gay Marriage is an Abomination.
So is abortion.

Sweet, simple, and to the point.

[Peter Murray]

Whatever point this topic had to start with has now been lost.

It has been locked. Don't continue the argument in a new topic, such a topic is likely to be deleted.