Changes in the paradigm...

I don't remember exactly who posted this idea, but I support the idea that as one becomes more advanced in wizardry, he/she will have a more broad knowledge of the speech and spells and would be able to do more advanced functions such as storing spells for use later. Also, when a person becomes more proficient in a different language, you don't tend to think about how to pronounce or how to write the language down, you can speak it normally, like your own language.

I like the shift, because it reflects the wizards' growth in magic, and makes it more realistic... more connected to the laws of nature. However, I do miss the description of magic, and one suggestion i would make for Diane Duane is to make the different forms of converstations more clear.. like in what language would Kit talk with his dog? (Alone) maybe use different fonts for different languages?

In SYWTB, there seems to be "loopholes" in the spells, for example,

..she could also hear Kit talking, saying casually, and, it seemed, in English, "We need to know something, and we suggest this particular method of finding the information..."

since they're new to the Speech, there's room for unexpected solutions, like Fred, and they don't accidentally ask for something they don't want. once they're more adept with the intricacies of the Speech, they have to work to ask for *exaxtly* what they want (as in the pollution-cleaning spell in Dilemma )instead of letting the Powers throw them something useful.

[etharei]

That's interesting, because "baka" means "idiot" in Japaneese.

And it means cow in Tagalog (Philippine language). Anyway, has anyone noticed how a lot of us read the same type of books? I was following the discussion (which was getting really off topic, might I add) and was delighted to find that I've read every book mentioned so far. Well, except for the Tamuli, though I adore the Eddings' stuff. I actually favor long books, because I read a little too quickly for my own good .

Oh yeah, back to the discussion. One thing I've noticed about the books is the way little mysterious phrases always leave me wondering. An example of this is near the end of Dilemma when Nita's mom says to her husband "You don't need to worry about Kit anymore" (sorry if I'm misquoting, but it's something like that). Though in the context of the known story it does make sense, that perhaps Nita's dad was worried about the sudden distance between Kit and Nita, somehow it sounds a bit ambigous, and I end up wondering what else it could mean. Perhaps it's also refering to a future development in the relationship between Nita and Kit? I haven't read A Wizard Alone, so maybe I'm missing something, but I just thought to bring it up.

[Quill]

My guess would be that Mrs. Callahan, having seen Kit working as a wizard in her own universe--where, as she points out, she makes the rules--she is now assured of both his character and his intentions, which includes however he feels towards Nita. She has seen, first-hand, proof that he is someone she can trust with her daughter--not that Nita isn't capable of taking care of herself, but try telling that to any mom--and she is passing that reassurance on to her husband.

This is just my guess.

Inside every cynic there's an idealist desperately yearning to be let out, and when they are let out they're usually a real pain and cause all sorts of trouble. --Chris Boucher

[worlebird]

The drawing in the air was not the actual spell diagram (power circle) it was just a view and they use pockets to store things so as they don't have to carry it.
...

-Dai Stiho by the way actually means high or at least dai does...so please don't use it at the end of your reply because...

What I'm going to say may sound like a personal attack, and if you take it that way, I'm sorry, but I have to get it off my chest.

It really bugs me when people post on this forum with personal speculation, but present it authoritatively as though it were fact. We don't know exactly what "Dai Stiho" means because it is an invented phrase for the book, and the book provides no translation for it. Even so, what's wrong with using it at the end of a post? Also, your ideas on the nature of the "writing in the air" and it's relationship to power diagrams is interesting, but dont' talk as though what you say is fact. It sounds condescending, you don't even know for sure what you're talking about. The only person who can do that is Diane, because she wrote the books in the first place.

I'm sorry, what I said is probably mean and will make you angry at me. In any case, you aren't the only one that does it. It just really bugs me.

Worlebird
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At the beginning of the week, we sealed ten BSD programmers into a computer room with a single distribution of BSD Unix. Upon opening the room after seven days, we found all ten programmers dead, clutching each others' throats, and thirteen new flavors of BSD.

[Birdhead]

Uh.. I thought the books had offered a definitive translation... "Go Well." I thought so, anyway... if it is, I would speculate that dai is the form of "To go" in the imperative- it just looks that way to me- and then stiho is well. but that's just how it feels to me...
ka kite
Tui

Tuibird in Aotearoa
Conservationist, Scientist, and proud of both!
Chocolate lover extraordinaire...
Ahahahaha, ahahahahaha, ahahahaha...
My mission: Bringing Maori to the world!

What I'm about to say may sound like a personal attack, an if you take it that way, I'm sorry, but I have to get this off my chest.

Let me tell u a little something worlebird. I was merely speculating my idea od dai stiho because of the way that they use it in the books not at the end but at the beginning of a sentence. Yes my comment was only a idea or a guess but u didn't have to jump down my back. Before u wanna play intelectual games with a thirteen year old and u as a grown man I would like to say that u may think ur just the best but I am a very smart thirteen year old with the iq to become a computer programmer or a chemist and I've looked at ur profile and "WE HAVE THE SAME INTERESTS" next time since it upsets u so much i will say that "I THINK". If u have anything to say u can e-mail me at htownballer6069@aol.com

[worlebird]

Hey, calm down. I'm sorry I ticked you off. I figured it probably would, though. It just bugs me when people present their own speculation as absolute fact. You certainly are not the only one here who's done it.
I tried to preface my post and cushion it as much as possible, to make it obvious that it wasn't meant to be inflammatory, but some people (especially on the internet) are prone to take everything very personally.

I apologize for causing so much offence. I don't want to turn this into a public flame war.

Worlebird
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At the beginning of the week, we sealed ten BSD programmers into a computer room with a single distribution of BSD Unix. Upon opening the room after seven days, we found all ten programmers dead, clutching each others' throats, and thirteen new flavors of BSD.

[Diane Duane]

Sheesh, guys, I go away for a week and you start chewing on each other.

Let me settle some of this immediately. I'm pretty sure that at least once in the books, "dai stiho" (can't find the accent mark at the moment) is rendered in the clear as "go well". I think the "stih-" part is where the verb has to be, and the verb is very inflected as regards (at least) both person and number -- see the bit with the "personal plural" used by the ball-bearing guys in _Dilemma_. It is usable for both "Hello" and "Goodbye", interchangeably, as some greeting-phrases are used in other Earth languages.

Someone else has remarked that "Dai" by itself doesn't make a lot of sense, but then neither does "Bye" as used in modern English. I think the informal usages spring up, as they do in English, when shortening the phrase just sounds better, somehow, to the Speech's local users. Probably there are speakers in other species (or languages) who prefer to say "Stih'" or a variant, depending on how their own languages handle verbs, or adjectives, or whatever.

...One other thing. Sometimes people do phrase speculation as if it's "what's so". I'm not bothered. It can be a personal manner of speech or writing which is otherwise transparent to the poster. If I note that someone is posting something obviously contradictory, I may choose to deal with it, or not. I sort of feel about these issues the way the US Navy people felt when I last talked to them about their reaction to Paramount Pictures trademarking "USS Enterprise". My Navy contact smiled sweetly and said, "Oh, we don't mind. We have the *real* one...with the nukes."

I don't mind when you correct each other on matters of canonical (i.e., "in print") Wizards stuff. But I expect you all to play nice, or I'll separate you. So sort yourselves out.

Here endeth the lesson.

-- DD

[worlebird]

Originally posted by Diane Duane:
Sheesh, guys, I go away for a week and you start chewing on each other.

Thanks Diane. Actually, I think we got ourselves sorted out pretty quickly. I realized even as I was writing my post that it probably wasn't a good idea, but, well, there it is. Anyhow, Htown and I have already talked privately, and apologies were made on both sides, so I think everyhing's fine.

Consider this an official public apology: I'm sorry, everybody. It simply wasn't a big big enough issue for me to have posted anything about in the first place. I know none of us wants this to become a flame forum, so please accept my apologies for nudging us in that direction.

Worlebird
------------------------------------
At the beginning of the week, we sealed ten BSD programmers into a computer room with a single distribution of BSD Unix. Upon opening the room after seven days, we found all ten programmers dead, clutching each others' throats, and thirteen new flavors of BSD.

[Birdhead]

Well, not that it's my business, but apology accepted. it's easy to take thing s the wong way over the internet. I am in favour of smilies; you can stick them on the end of a post and it's all better. well, not exactly, but they sort of have a "grain of salt" implication...
Ka kite
Tui

Tuibird in Aotearoa
Conservationist, Scientist, and proud of both!
Chocolate lover extraordinaire...
Ahahahaha, ahahahahaha, ahahahaha...
My mission: Bringing Maori to the world!

Hey " Dai stiho" everyone I just wanted to say that I also noticed The shift in the writing of "dilemma" And it sort of bothered me cause I was so used to being able to picture what all the characters were sayind during the spells and being able to really know what was going on. You of course, still can but I thought having the spells laid out for the readers sort of brought a depth to the writing.I don't know maybe not but everyone has their opinions and this was mine.

A Person

[Wilf]

Is it just me, or does "Dai Stiho" sound vaguely like Welsh? If not Welsh, then one of the other Celtic labguages - Manx, perhaps. Is there someone here who speaks Welsh sufficiently well to confirm or deny that I am talking rubbish....

[cheshire]

I would like to point out that perhaps the paradigm shift in the methods of wizardry displayed in the books may be attributed to a change in the author's own ideas abt the YW universe...we must understand tt there are large intervals between when the books are published.during this time the writer has time to sort out her thoughts,think of how the story's universe might work better,come up with new ideas as to how wizardry works... but when writing a series,the author can't very well go back to the previous bks and change the details she decided to change...and hence u get a transformed wizardry!
Tell me if i'm right Duane?