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  • Changes in the paradigm...

    The biggest thing I noticed about this book was the drastic change in the manner in which wizardry is done, and how it appears when it is done.

    In "So You Want...", wizardry was very concrete. Nita and Kit would make signs on the ground in the Speech, would say some words in the Speech, and occasionally even use objects as part of the spell (batteries, wands, and the like).

    In "Deep Wizardry", we see some of the same type of stuff, but then we are introduced to the wizards of the sea, and see wizardry as whale-song and tracing movement through the water. We get our first glimpse of a wizardry made into a physical object in the form of the whalesark.

    Then, in "High Wizardry", the unusual twist of a computer is added. Nita and Kit mostly use spoken spells here, with very little writing on the ground or use of items, but Dairene begins using the computer to do wizardry. Thus, she starts out never having to write on the ground, use objects, or even speak in the Speech. Interestingly enough, she seems to be able to learn the Speech just as quickly anyway.

    Now, in "Wizard's Dilemma", spells become physical things routinely. We see shining scripts in the Speech drawn in the air as they are spoken, or drwan by a wand, we also see stored "pre-made" spells pulled out of pockets as shining balls or threads, and droped on the ground, or wrapped around a person, or whatever. Spells become much more visual things, physical things in and of themselves in this book. In one case, a set of spells even takes on the appearance of a charm bracelet.

    This could certainly be attributed to the wizard's increasing skill in wizardry, but the paradigm shift is interesting nonetheless.

    Worlebird
    ------------------------------------
    !/bin/perl -sp0777i<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<j]dsj
    $/=unpack('H*',$_);$_=`echo 16dio\U$k"SK$/SM$n\EsN0p[lN*1
    lK[d2%Sa2/d0$^Ixp"|dc`;s/\W//g;$_=pack('H*',/((..)*)$/)
    Worlebird
    ------------------------------------
    "We were once so close to heaven, Peter came out and gave us medals declaring us the nicest of the damned." - They Might be Giants

  • #2
    The biggest thing I noticed about this book was the drastic change in the manner in which wizardry is done, and how it appears when it is done.

    In "So You Want...", wizardry was very concrete. Nita and Kit would make signs on the ground in the Speech, would say some words in the Speech, and occasionally even use objects as part of the spell (batteries, wands, and the like).

    In "Deep Wizardry", we see some of the same type of stuff, but then we are introduced to the wizards of the sea, and see wizardry as whale-song and tracing movement through the water. We get our first glimpse of a wizardry made into a physical object in the form of the whalesark.

    Then, in "High Wizardry", the unusual twist of a computer is added. Nita and Kit mostly use spoken spells here, with very little writing on the ground or use of items, but Dairene begins using the computer to do wizardry. Thus, she starts out never having to write on the ground, use objects, or even speak in the Speech. Interestingly enough, she seems to be able to learn the Speech just as quickly anyway.

    Now, in "Wizard's Dilemma", spells become physical things routinely. We see shining scripts in the Speech drawn in the air as they are spoken, or drwan by a wand, we also see stored "pre-made" spells pulled out of pockets as shining balls or threads, and droped on the ground, or wrapped around a person, or whatever. Spells become much more visual things, physical things in and of themselves in this book. In one case, a set of spells even takes on the appearance of a charm bracelet.

    This could certainly be attributed to the wizard's increasing skill in wizardry, but the paradigm shift is interesting nonetheless.

    Worlebird
    ------------------------------------
    !/bin/perl -sp0777i&lt;X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0&lt;j]dsj
    $/=unpack('H*',$_);$_=`echo 16dio\U$k"SK$/SM$n\EsN0p[lN*1
    lK[d2%Sa2/d0$^Ixp"|dc`;s/\W//g;$_=pack('H*',/((..)*)$/)
    Worlebird
    ------------------------------------
    "We were once so close to heaven, Peter came out and gave us medals declaring us the nicest of the damned." - They Might be Giants

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    • #3

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      • #4
        Yeah...I also noticed another thing similar to that. Have you realized that in every book, not only do the spells get more advanced, but the concepts too. It's almost like Wizardry has deepened the characters' souls and ideas towards life, making their spells and the things that they are dealing with more complex, less easy to fix with just a swish of a wand, and less easy to understand right away. The way wizardry has affected the way they think and their maturity is really interesting too. Since the beginning of the series, their whole images have changed.

        ~Em~

        "But victory's certain. Never think otherwise. There is loss, and there is pain, and in your home frame of reference, they're real enough, not to be devalued. But today the energy's running out of things just a little more slowly...for those who trust their hearts a measure." Diane Duane, A_Wizard's_Dilemma.
        "But victory's certain. Never think otherwise. There is loss, and there is pain, and in your home frame of reference, they're real enough, not to be devalued. But today the energy's running out of things just a little more slowly...for those who tru

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        • #5

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          • #6
            Yeah...that's true, but don't you think they usually get better too? Lengthy writing isn't always bad (according to my teachers it is, but who are they to say anyway? They aren't going to be famous writers someday [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]). Anyway some of my favoritest books (all right, all right, that's not a word...sheesh!) are really long, for example, The Amber Spyglass by Pullman, or The Redemption of Althalus by Eddings. Great books, some of my favorites.

            ~Em~

            "But victory's certain. Never think otherwise. There is loss, and there is pain, and in your home frame of reference, they're real enough, not to be devalued. But today the energy's running out of things just a little more slowly...for those who trust their hearts a measure." Diane Duane, A_Wizard's_Dilemma.
            "But victory's certain. Never think otherwise. There is loss, and there is pain, and in your home frame of reference, they're real enough, not to be devalued. But today the energy's running out of things just a little more slowly...for those who tru

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            • #7
              Redemption of Althalus was really good, I agree.
              I meant that JK Rowling seems to be trying to advance her readers. The first Harry Potter book practically qualified as a Novella for some people, it was awfully short, especally in comparison to the fourth book, which is a good-size novel. Odds are book seven will be about as long as The Sword of Shannara

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              • #8
                Ummm... okay, I'm not trolling here or trying to start a fight, but I really didn't like The Redemption of Athalus at all. I only finished it because it was a present and I felt that was the couteous thing to do. I'm interested to find out what other people see in it that I don't.

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                • #9
                  I liked Athalus

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                  • #10
                    A challenge!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] Do you want the short version or the long version of why I like it?

                    ~Em~

                    "But victory's certain. Never think otherwise. There is loss, and there is pain, and in your home frame of reference, they're real enough, not to be devalued. But today the energy's running out of things just a little more slowly...for those who trust their hearts a measure." Diane Duane, A_Wizard's_Dilemma.
                    "But victory's certain. Never think otherwise. There is loss, and there is pain, and in your home frame of reference, they're real enough, not to be devalued. But today the energy's running out of things just a little more slowly...for those who tru

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'll always go for the long version if you give me the option, so go for whichever version you feel more like typing out! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                      Rysade, I'll give you that Eddings' Gods and Goddesses can be amusing, but that's also partially what really got to me about the story as a whole. It seemed to me that Athalus was more about Emmy being smug and having all her plans work out perfectly than anything else. I've got no problems with the good guys winning in the end, but it would've been nice somewhere in the book for the bad guys to at least throw up one challenge that stumped them for more than a page.

                      But that's just my opinion, and if someone can convince me to give it another try, maybe I will.

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                      • #12
                        Reading really really fast does that to you. I'm not sure about you guys, but I can read any book in such a short time that I finish nearly any books I read- i just don't have time to stop! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] Probably, that's part of the reasons I like JKR's lentgh-increasing. However, while length is GOOD, any book which takes me more than two or three hours is GOOD, The Redemption of Althalus... well. I enjoyed it. But. Big but. It's basically the same plot, same characters, similar world concepts that Eddings used in the Belgariad; in the Mallorean; in the Elenium; and in the Tamuli. If you haven't read those, I can understand you liking it. It seems quite good. But as a rehash of the others... well, it's probably better, I guess, in terms of writing because it certainly was a slicker read. Still... Ah well. Don't get me wrong, I liked it and will probably read anything else he puts out, but Eddings really is quite shallow; he doesn't really tackle any of the deeper issues, there's little credible introspection, characters are often either carbon copies of each other or onesided; and too often, I find aspects that are meant to be humourous are either repeated so often they're not funny, or completely overdone. I do like some of his dialogue, though...

                        On to the original topic. (poor worlebird... this thread has been hijacked by Dweia...) If you noticed in HW, spells are also thought- Carl's spell getting rid of the copy Dairine and computer is simply thought, except for the start word "Run," and I remember Nita was rather impressed- presumably it shows a high level of skill in the Speech. Perhaps that's a lot of it, of those shifts- skills. In HW Carl mentions that the computers do all the drawing of diagrams, etc- possibly some spells need diagrams and others don't. Myself, I've always had the vague idea that there are two or three "areas" of wizardry- the very basic things (picking up a telephone, Tom in HW, mind-to-mind contact, everyone a lot) that can be done basically without any formal spelling; and then a second group that can be broken down into two, depending on how you see it; the formal spells, that are either written or chanted. These are either indications of complexity and difficulty, possibly even familiarity (the harder spells or less skilled you are, are written down, if you either get better or the spells are more simple/familiar you say them aloud)or perhaps of spell type- some you write, some you don't. I go for the fist; the better you get, the more you can say out loud. Certainly the implementing of spells seems to be about saying it; drawn spells don't activate untill they're read. As for the spells-that-have-physical-form... Actually, that's quite cool. I didn't really notice that distinction; perhaps it's for spells that are not familiar enough to know off-by-heart. Hey, that could be it; if you know a spell, you don't need to look it up in a book and write it down and then read it, ou can just say it. Maybe written down spells are just so you're sure you aren't gonna forget a key word...? and physical spells are just those that are per-prepared- sort of like having apocket stuffed full of poems you can't remember off by heart, but like to quote.

                        Huh. i think I wrote a lot of incoherent garbage up there; certainly incoherent. Stiil, it's Labour Weekend: Be Happy everyone!
                        B
                        ---&gt;Happy Labour Weekend, world!

                        Tuibird in Aotearoa
                        Conservationist, Scientist, and proud of both!
                        Chocolate lover extraordinaire... mmmmyummmm
                        Go ahead! Panic! Do it now and avoid the June rush! Fear death by water!

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                        • #13
                          Why did Carl say "Run"? I thought that was a computer thing and it has always confused me.

                          "An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind."
                          -Martin Luther King, Jr.
                          *Ella*
                          "But the night rolls around, and it all starts making sense
                          There is no right way or wrong way, you just have to live
                          And so I do what I do, and at least I exist;
                          What could mean more than this?"
                          --Bright Eyes

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                          • #14
                            ok, so mabye this will start an argument...but...didnt JKR say that the 4th hp was the longest?????but then again, at the rate shes going, im not so sure i believe everything shes sayin now....

                            erised straeh ruoy tub ecaf ruoy ton wohs i
                            PM: Dai everyone, Caitlin is right
                            Follow the bouncing poot

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                            • #15
                              bk 5 is longer...one chapter longer (oish), or so. also, it'll be out april/may. but i have a question...did anyone notice that although the magical concepts got more difficult, we saw less and less of the speech? i liked how dduane had the language all said in the pages. but now you just read that the wizards did some magic. what's up with that?

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