"There's no higher payment that can be made."

[SpacePen]

are the powers the judges of this sort of thing?

I don't think the Powers think that way, to judge one group more or less highly because of their choice.

I wasn't thinking that the Powers would judge potential energy like a judge in a court of law, (who may or may not decide one way or the other); rather I think of this as a mathematical issue. I think the Powers are subject to the "laws" of mathematics - if a life is dying out (eventually), then it's potential energy is less than a life which is not dying out. (I would not consider the Alaalids to be an undying species - they did have a kind of death). It doesn't matter if you place more importance on one or the other - what matters is the strict mathematical outcome of the available energy levels. How much energy was used in the blank-cheque spell? That is the amount to be paid back, plus any interest the Powers may or may not levy on such a loan.

(However, if you can fund a spell by knocking years off of your life, it would seem that there wouldn't be a need for a 'blank-check' spell. Unless, I suppose, you didn't know how to do the former thing yet).

[mariak]

The thing I have trouble with is, everything I can think of that would be worse than death would also increase entropy and/or affect someone who isn't responsible for the "blank-check" or whatever else got them into the situation of needing to pay that price. I don't think the Powers would want to increase entropy or hurt innocents, so...

As a side topic: Do you think blank-check wizardries are the only thing that makes you have to pay a price? I think there must be other things, but I don't know what they would be...

[SpacePen]

just to throw something into the mix....

i've been reading the feline wizard books and duane there specifies that cats have nine lives, and one of the cat-wizards does pay the powers for access to something by giving up one of the nine lives. I wonder if a cat-wizard life is the "same" price as a human-wizard life? If so, a cat would conceivably be able to pay a higher than life price by paying for something with more than one of their lives.

[Tsakaki]

I always thought that the higher price would be the end of the world. Atlantis all over again.

Ooo, that's a good one, I never thought of that. I took it as either a loss/sacrifice of one's wizardry or maybe the loss of a loved one or friend.

I think it's probably something that's either happened to Carl or that he's seen happen to someone, what with the way he reacted.

I'm sure Diane'll bring it up again, she seems to be very thorough. I certainly hope so at least.

[Zergplex]

The Greatest of Costs

I believe that Carl's comment on a higher payment then sacrificing your own life was foreshadowing of Ed's death later on in Deep Wizardry. Sacrificing yourself is a high payment, but having another person you love sacrifice him/herself in your place is a far greater one. When you sacrifice yourself you pass on to timeheart after all, but the sacrifice of another life is a burden you will always carry, long after the grief passes.

After all, from what I understand of the magic system in Young Wizards, a life offered to save another inherently has a higher value then one simply offered in payment. Selflessness and love both add value to a life. Nita of course was offering her life to save another (to save many others, by reenacting the Song of Twelve), but that doesn't make Ed's choice any less meaningful, powerful, or cost-fulfilling.

A life given willingly to save another is the greatest of gifts, burdens, and costs.

-Ronny

[Gracie]

I've thought about that, Zergplex, how the price might have been having another loved one take your place. But if you look at Ed's and Nita's relationship, it's not exactly "loving". They are fairly close but considering they've only had one really deep conversation, and the rest involve Nita being scared or Ed being hungry, it probably would not have been as big as a sacrifice as if maybe Kit died instead of Ed. But that's just my opinion, I have no idea what the Powers consider a big enough sacrifice.

[SilveredBlue]

Okay, okay, so what if the highest price was not dying, but becoming really old or going into stasis or something?
One person said something about Kit telling Nita that shielding from the LP took one year off her lifespan- so that's one year when she is not using energy. So the 'unlived years' represent a certain amount of as yet unconsumed energy, right? And *SPOILER* (sry don't know how to do the text blank thing yet) if Nita had died her 'energy ration' would be 0.

So what if instead of dying she took all those unlived years and put their, um, potential energy into the spell? That would be a 'higher price', and the result would be that the wizard who did that would become old or die right after that.

The reason I don't hold with the 'binding all her energy into the spell' theory is *SPOILER for W@W!!!* that Nita was prepared to do this at the Crossings and there was no mention of that being the highest price then.

So that is the crazy idea I came up with after rejecting all the other theories.

[bookgirl]

I just barely reread this book again, or rather I listened to the audio book.

Here is my idea. What if the greatest sacrifice is to put all of your powers into a spell and to lose them completely. After that the person will still be alive and live a normal life, but will always know that they had their wizardry but they can no longer access the magic, or anything to do with wizardry. They wouldn't be able to hear trees speak, or cars. That person would have to live the rest of their life with that hole in their heart, and instead of not knowing why they felt like that, they would know exactly why. And would know what it was that they had lost.

Anyway, that's my idea. I'm not sure if how I said that is very clear, but that was how I felt after reading the story again.

[estar9821]

I don't think the sacrifice greater than giving up your life is losing wizardry. I'd rather have that happen than die. I always thought that when Nita almost gave up her life was a big defining moment for her. I think we all like to think that we would do the same if it came down to it, but how many of us really would? I'm not sure I would, but I like to think I would.

On this topic, it could be that the price higher than life is sacrificing your life for others, and in that case, Carl wrapped up that mystery in the same conversation. But somehow I don't think that's what it is. It's too simple, too easy. I'd think DD could come up with something more complicated. Just what, I have no idea.

[Dragon Writer]

There's actually more than one thing - the memories of your loved one, or worse, the life of the one you love... The only thing more precious than your own life, is the life of that who you care about.

Perhaps just as bad as your own life, is not the loss of wizadry, but the loss of that world - yes, you'd be alive... but to have known the wonders of the world, and not only lose them, but to have it made that you never knew them in the first place - that's gotta sting. To lose the friendships you made, and leave behind the people you loved, to rid yourself of all that - it could tear you apart.

[NickRyan]

Maybe it's to live out your life in complete solitude. I know that would be absolutely horrible to have no friends or companions and maybe lose wizardry as well so you would feel useless and alone.

[bookgirl]

Perhaps just as bad as your own life, is not the loss of wizadry, but the loss of that world - yes, you'd be alive... but to have known the wonders of the world, and not only lose them, but to have it made that you never knew them in the first place - that's gotta sting. To lose the friendships you made, and leave behind the people you loved, to rid yourself of all that - it could tear you apart.

Yes! That is exactly what I meant, I just didn't say it as well. lol.

[estar9821]

This may very well earn the title of Most Complicated Question On The Forum.

It could be loss of wizardry, but something tells me it's more complicated...but aren't the most complicated things the simplest sometimes? I dunno. Reading this thread=an excellent way to make your head hurt.

[Tobiasscrabble]

What if

It's refusual to timeheart that seems to be the worst thing ever regardless because that would explian his reaction

[zilvox]

the higher price is death without admittance to timeheart afterward