Why did the Lone Power chose a serpent body to attack?

[The_Iron_Giant]

I might think that it goes w/ old myths???

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[The_Iron_Giant]

I might think that it goes w/ old myths???

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[Quill]

Sounds like history to me. Serpents, downfalls...it worked before, didn't it? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Inside every cynic there's an idealist desperately yearning to be let out, and when they are let out they're usually a real pain and cause all sorts of trouble. --Chris Boucher

[Buran]

Originally posted by The_Iron_Giant:
I might think that it goes w/ old myths???

I did a bit of Googling and this looks like it's the most appropriate link:

http://www.askwhy.co.uk/awmob/awcmyt...esSerpent.html

My own comments:

The snake, or serpent, is perceived by many to be a slimy, wet thing though snakes are actually warm and dry. The perception likely does come from mythology, largely Christian literature (it is the serpent, after all, which entices Eve to take the bite from the forbidden fruit, and thus leads to the fall of Man.)

The theme of the choice reappears several times in the Wizards series, most notably in Book of Night with Moon; in Christian myth, the choice was between forbidden knowledge or lasting innocence.

Post tenebras spero lucem - after dark I wish for light
(CC) This post has been closed-captioned for the hearing-impaired.

[PK]

This is rather late; I hope no one minds my dragging the thread up....

I always associated the serpent in Deep Wizardry with the Midgard serpent/Jormungand of Norse tales, actually -- lying in the deep of the ocean, having it brought up is supposed to end in disaster, etc.

It may be relevant here to note that the Winged Defender in High Wizardry listed Thor as one of her identities.

[Birdhead]

Yeah, I tend to think that... I also have a vague recollection of having once read about the World Snake, which goes right around the world and bites its own tail. However... that actually might be the Midgar serpent to which you just referred, so..! (Any cvlarification would be lovely, to know that I'm not completely mad.)
T

Tuibird in Aotearoa
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Chocolate lover extraordinaire...
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Spelling Freak and Typo Queen

[PK]

I think... I should probably look this up, but off the top of my head, I'm fairly sure they've been identified with each other but also think there might be a similar (at least superficially) entity from further east. "World Snake" would however fit pretty cleanly with "Midgard serpent," however, since Midgard was the term for, well, earth....

And upon identifying the aspect of the Lone Power in Deep Wizardry with the Midgard serpent, the Norse story in which one of Thor's (failed) trials among the giants is to lift a cat which turns out to BE the Midgard serpent gets really really interesting to try to interpret within the YW cosmology. Perhaps especially since another of them involved wrestling an old woman who turned out to be either old age or death, I forget.

Um. Maybe I should go to the mythology thread.

[Rysade]

[Agent M]

Ah but here's the better question, why NOT a serpent? Hee Hee Hee!!!!!

Live your life as if there's no tommorrow, for all you know there might not be.

[PK]

*blinks and goes to look this up*

As far as I can find, the serpent gnawing the roots of the World Tree was Nidhogg. (I pause here to be amused at one website which has now spawned the thought of Ponch's reaction to the squirrel supposed to run up and down the tree and relay insults from serpent to eagle... er, anyway.) The Midgard serpent has been the one long enough to bite his tail at the bottom of the sea, Jormungand/Iormungandr/probably other transliterations, pretty much everywhere I've seen it....

*looks puzzled*

[Rysade]

[Birdhead]

Thanks... to a certain extent, isn't the identification of a serpent as the Lone Power really heavily Christian based? The other elements (Midgard Serpent, etc) are not (as far as I can remember, which is not very far) particularly benign, but neither are they actively evil, either. Actually, I should really see what the Aborigine myths about snakes are. Coming from Australia, there must be some..

*goes to find books on Norse mythology, and Aborigine*
T

Tuibird in Aotearoa
Conservationist, Scientist, and proud of both!
Chocolate lover extraordinaire...
Ahahahaha, ahahahahaha, ahahahaha...
My mission: Bringing Maori to the world!
Spelling Freak and Typo Queen

[Rysade]

[Birdhead]

Yeah. Certainly the whole Christian bit (idiom? Metaphor? Influence?) is considerably more obvious in BoNWM, and less so in DW. If Christian mythology is permeating our impressions of others, what effect is that going to have in the long run?
T

Tuibird in Aotearoa
Conservationist, Scientist, and proud of both!
Chocolate lover extraordinaire...
Ahahahaha, ahahahahaha, ahahahaha...
My mission: Bringing Maori to the world!
Spelling Freak and Typo Queen

[Rysade]

It's probably already taken effect. It's had 2000 years to do it, that ought to be enough. The entire body of philosophy (english-speaking version) centers around God, I beleive, and it's managed to sneak it's way back into the Greek philosopy, though they were polytheists anyway. About the only thing it hasn't touched would be the far eastern stuff, which is completely ignored, (as far as I can tell) in western philosophy, with a few exceptions.

I don't know about NZ, but the US has it bad.

Also, I just thought of a theory. I wonder if Wiccans, whose religion is extremely open ended, are influenced more than you might think. I wonder if they feel they are obliged to have deities, since the majority of people are Christian.

From this link:

The largest are the mono-theists who worship the God of Abraham. These are the Jews, Christians, and the Muslims, and perhaps some other groups. These groups include about 53 percent of the world's population and that percentage is increasing because of Islam's growth.

I think I can safely say that the majority of the world's population are monothesists who, despite some people's claims otherwise, technically worship the same deity. That puts a spin on some ideas, I'd say. I wonder how long the world has been predominantly monotheistic?

The Skeptic Society, led by Michael Schermer, focuses on Christianity. If they're going to attack a religion, it's always Christianity. People just get locked into thinking one way... too bad.

Interestingly, here's something else:
(same page)

The third group are the non-religious, and anti-religious. Non-religious are the agnostics, do not know, do not care group. The anti-religious are the more radical atheists, free thinkers, and those that are opposed to all religion. All together these groups are 14 percent of the world's population. about two and a half percent are part of the more radical atheist group and eleven to twelve percent belong to the more moderate agnostic group.