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  • Carmela and The Speech

    I saw this mentioned in another topic, but instead of completely side-tracking that topic, I decided to make my own!

    Okay. So. Carmela. The wrench in the whole darn thing. So, she can speak in The Speech, but she's not a wizard? Does that mean she can just understand Kit and Nita when they talk to someone like Fillif (and she understanding Fillif in return when he talks in The Speech) or -sine she can actually speak in it- can she also talk to things in the Speech? For example, can she make the water boil if she doesn't feel like waiting for her tea? Can she make the front door unlock when she forgets her keys? Obviously she must know she can't lie in the Speech.

    So... do you consider her a Half-Wizard? Apparently she can't read Kit's manual, right? What are your thoughts?
    ..................~*Wolf*~..................
    AIM: CeliaWells8 / Twitter: Scifi_Nerd
    Won 2nd Place for Topic Of The Week 04, January, 2010!!!

  • #2
    I think she can do certain things. There is a different between Speaking the Speech and using it for Wizardry. In certain books it described how whole cultures use it as their native tongue. I know she couldn't make water boil because when Nita did it she felt a drain of energy but the door thing I am not sure of since when Kit did it he just asked and the door did it. I am not sure if it required energy on his part as kinetic energy.

    Oh and a few other points. Anyone can understand the speech, it just comes out as their native tongue, that is why they couldn't talk on the bus since a native tongue might not be the one you expect to hear. She would just get over some inconstancies that appear if a word doesn't work well in a native tongue.
    My Young Wizard's RP Forum

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    • #3
      I completely forgot that whole worlds do use it as their native tongue... that seems so much stranger to me now rather than when I read it- because isn't the Speech supposed to be Universal? I guess with odds and all that, there has to be one culture whose language happens to be understood universally. This universe is just too darn weird for that not to happen, I guess.

      I think maybe the doorknob thing would be using magic, since I just remembered the whole scene with Kit talking to his dad's car... although would the doorknob and gate-lock be considered "lesser" objects not able to speak because they're not full of many different parts, such as the train to manhattan, or the car? Is the doorknob considered sentient when it's fully assembled, as opposed to a doorknob missing a screw? I know I'm getting really involved here.. sorry. ::sheepish grin::

      I know that when Fillif speaks in the Speech, Carmela can understand him, since to her, (through the speech) it ...hold on. Stop thought. Since Carmela can understand the Speech now, when Fillif talks in the Speech so other people (say, Nita's dad) can understand him, do you think Carmela hears his words in the Speech or in English via the Speech? Or somehow just both?
      ..................~*Wolf*~..................
      AIM: CeliaWells8 / Twitter: Scifi_Nerd
      Won 2nd Place for Topic Of The Week 04, January, 2010!!!

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      • #4
        I

        Concur that is a perplexing topic I think that she has the same capablities that ponch did beforehe started the universe creating but you have to wonder if she will react like ponch did to the excess of magic

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        • #5
          Tobiasscrabble, did you read all the books? What happened to Ponchy (as I call him all too often) made me cry... =(

          Dunno if we're on the same page. (Wow, now THERE was a pun I didn't actually intend to make!)
          ..................~*Wolf*~..................
          AIM: CeliaWells8 / Twitter: Scifi_Nerd
          Won 2nd Place for Topic Of The Week 04, January, 2010!!!

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          • #6
            Carmela's not the only one to hear it. Her mother hears Ponch talking in the Speech (or thinks she does; she's not certain) in one of the earlier books.

            My pet theory as to how it works is that if you are aware that the Speech exists, you can hear it spoken aloud. The spanner in the works comes in WH though.

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            • #7
              Oh wow that's an interesting theory...

              I'm thinking back to my dog though- whenever she barked I always went to check out what was going on, but it was clear that she had very distinct barks. One meant the mailman was hear, heaven forbid, the other meant she saw a squirrel, one meant she was chasing the cats... etc, etc. And whenever I meow at my cats, they meow back. I kind of thought of Ponch and Kit's mom having this kind of communication... talking with barriers kind of thing.
              ..................~*Wolf*~..................
              AIM: CeliaWells8 / Twitter: Scifi_Nerd
              Won 2nd Place for Topic Of The Week 04, January, 2010!!!

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              • #8
                The thing it's worth remembering is that the Speech is the Language that under-pins everything. It's no surprise that Carmela can understand it. Everything, at some level, understands the Speech. If you were un-aware of its existence and someone Spoke to you, you'd still understand what they said, but I'd guess you'd probably think they'd just used your native language. Carmela's trick is that she also Speaks it...
                -- Rick.

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                • #9
                  I vaguely remember reading an article over at the Errantry Concordance that sort of explained Carmella, but I can't for the life of me find it now. Maybe DD retracted it?

                  Anyway, this article explained what witches and warlocks were. They are people who, although they have not been offered wizardry, have managed to pick up a few bits and pieces and are able to use basic magic and the speech. Sometimes they were harmless hedgewitches helping fellow villagers when they were sick. But of course, since these people did not have to answer to anyone, sometimes they used their powers for less wholesome acts.

                  So that's what I see Carmella as: a modern-day witch of sorts, dabbling in forces she doesn't understand and hasn't been given any guidance on how to use. Lucky she knows so many wizards, who can tell her when she is doing something dangerous! (Not that she listens . . .)

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                  • #10
                    Are you looking for the page on Paramagia, Space Cadet? (I cheated slightly, I found Lee's post over in the other thread.

                    I agree with the discussion about everything being able to understand the Speech in some way, whether they hear it as their native tongue or as something else.

                    Its mentioned when Nita is having a chat with Liused in SYWBAW, that she used to talk back when she was younger, I think. Perhaps Carmela hasn't grown up?

                    I think maybe the doorknob thing would be using magic, since I just remembered the whole scene with Kit talking to his dad's car... although would the doorknob and gate-lock be considered "lesser" objects not able to speak because they're not full of many different parts, such as the train to manhattan, or the car? Is the doorknob considered sentient when it's fully assembled, as opposed to a doorknob missing a screw? I know I'm getting really involved here.. sorry. ::sheepish grin::
                    Remember that they talked to the lock in SYWTBAW to get it to let them pass...

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                    • #11
                      Okay. Let me try to straighten all this out as I see it in my head.

                      Say Kit, Nita and Carmela took a trip to Japan. (I use this as an example, because in earlier books, this was the foreign language Carmela was studying) If a Japanese kid spoke in his native tongue to Carmela, she'd be able to understand him because she taught herself the language. Kit and Nita would not be able to understand him or talk to him, since they cannot speak Japanese. But then this kid, who's also a wizard, remembers this and so starts talking in the Speech. Since every living being can understand the speech, it would seem as if he was still talking Japanese to everyone around them, but Kit, Nita and still Carmela would be able to understand him, Carmela hearing in both languages at the same time, I guess.

                      But since Kit, Nita and this kid (feel free to give him a name, haha) are wizards, they can talk to the water and convince it to let them walk on it, so they can go out into the ocean or whatever and have a conversation, unafraid of being overheard, what with the strange things they want to talk about.

                      Now, here's my question. Since Carmela also knows the Speech, does this mean she can just talk in it, and have every being understand her? Or can she also talk to the water, and convince it to let her walk on it as well? I always understood that part to be wizardry- maybe the water can understand her, but since she's not a wizard, it refuses to adhere by her words. So, do Kit, Nita and their friend leave Carmela to yell at them from the beach? Or is she smugly trotting along right next to them?
                      Last edited by Wolf; December 12, 2009, 04:50:39 PM.
                      ..................~*Wolf*~..................
                      AIM: CeliaWells8 / Twitter: Scifi_Nerd
                      Won 2nd Place for Topic Of The Week 04, January, 2010!!!

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                      • #12
                        My guess is the walking-on-water requires a Wizardry because it's changing the nature of something, if only temporarily. Wizardry takes both Speech and Power, and the Speech has to be correct. Carmela's left on the beach twice over because she doesn't have the Power and she doesn't know the correct form of words.
                        -- Rick.

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                        • #13
                          I think Nita and Kit would understand the kid speaking Japanese if WAW is any indication; Tom and Carl greet Roshaun in his native language and the others all understand it fine and are aware that Roshaun's native language is quite lyrical. Not to mention that'd make it hard to work with a wizard from another country where they're not fluent in your native language!

                          As for whether Carmela could walk on water - I don't think so. She's missing the enacture part of her Speech, so she can't increase the surface tension of the water sufficiently so she can walk on it. That's okay though, Carmela doesn't need wizardry. She has many wizard buddies who she can convince to do it for her. Poor Kit doesn't stand a chance.

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                          • #14
                            Thanks, Alla. I saw the Paramagia article while looking, but it didn't say exactly what I remembered reading. I'm starting to think now that I invented the whole 'what witches are' thing myself, to explain Carmella. Oops . . .

                            I worry about Carmella. Since she has the egg-beater, she can fight, but she can't SHIELD. I'm like, "Please 'Mela, no redshirt impersonations!"

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                            • #15
                              I think i saw on the peridixis artical that it was what was required to preform wizardry. If you dont have the preidixis inside you you can talk in the speech all you want but it wont do anything. Vice versa, if you do have it it allows for your words in the speech to have wizardly effects.
                              Footsteps in the snow suggest where you have been, point to where you were going: but where they suddenly vanish, never dismiss the possibility of flight....

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