the issue of god/religion in YW

[the_peridexis]

i've been woundering for awhile; nita's family doesn't ever really mention their faith. i don't have ANYTHING against atheism, but i'm really curious. if nita does belive in god, doesn't she ever have any conflicting thoughts concerning; IS there a god? i mean, from a wizard's point of view, the Powers made everything, not god, but that basically clashes with almost any religion out there. anyone care to enlighten/explain things to me?

[bluesalamanders]

Have you read all the books? Because in at least one of them, Nita's family - or, at least, her mother - does mention her faith. Or Nita thinks about her talking about it...something like that.

Every religion clashes with every other. In the books, we - and wizards - get to find out what is "true" in the YW universe...and it's hardly surprising that it would be very different from human beliefs.

Why don't you see the Powers as analagous to god(s)?

Blue~

[Peter Murray]

Wizard's Dilemma has Nita going into the church where she and Dairine were taken every Sunday, before her mother decided to let them make their own minds up, and started going to church alone.

It's clear from that part of the book that Nita identifies the One with God. In High Wizardry, a Power identifies him/herself with one of the Angels of the Bible. The Lone Power is compared with Lucifer/Satan more than once.

Helena Rodriguez doesn't like Kit being a wizard, thinking he'd sold his soul to the Devil. Though you did say Nita's family, and didn't ask about Kit's.

"Almost any religion"? Even if the Powers created everything themselves, that doesn't seem to clash with Hinduism or Shintoism (what I know of them). If they did the One's bidding, then it fits with Christianity and, as far as I know, other monotheistic religions.

[Slash]

ME Slash (from another planet,sea,land, ex.)
knows there is a god! and that his son lives and there still is a god ...

[the_peridexis]

thank you! i have read all the books, but not for awhile. and for whatever reason, i've never really thought of the Powers as analagous to god, or gods. i didn't ask about kit's faminly because i understood their situation. and because i've never read the bible, (though i've many times thought of analyzing it)i don't know too much about the different angels, things like that.(though i did make the connection betwen satan and the LP.) and yes, PM, "alomst" any religion. the Powers, even if they did do the One's bidding, would clash with Islam. though i suppose that is the only exception. thank you for your wisdom, cousins,

-peri

[Birdhead]

In fact, I believe Nita states quite clearly and explicitly in <i>Dilemma</i>, in the passage Peter mentions, that she identifies the Christian god as an interpretation or reflection of some sort of the One; implicitly, this follows of all theistic religions. As I see it, all the deities in any religion are reflections or aspects of the Powers; kind of like there's a set of blueprints for deities and they get filled in slightly differently by every religion. I'm not explaining this very well but, for example, the winged defender canonically appears in multiple, um, canons or pantheons: Michael the Archangel in Xtianity, both Prometheus and Athena in the Greek pantheon, aaaand I can't remember any others but I think a couple are mentioned. Oh, Lugh in the Irish pantheon.

The whole idea of blueprints kind of reminds me of this theory I was learning about in philosophy, I forget what it's called now, but I think the Greeks used to believe it; kind of that there is this sort of second world where there exist the ultimate or ideal forms of, well, everything, and everything in this world is simply a poor reflection of it. It relates to, um, language, I believe, because when we use a word we're referring to the ideal not to the thing in the world. Man, I can't believe how little of this I remember; if anyone remembers what the "ideals" are called, plz to remind me?

I don't know enough about non-theistic religions like Buddhism to suggest how the Powers may be reflected there, but perhaps the founder of Buddhism was an avatar of the One (I have a sneaking suspicion Buddhists would find this suggestion offensive, so, if there are any Buddhists out there, please forgive me if this is so; absolutely no disrespect is intended.)

[the_peridexis]

incredibly inteligent pplz, you are.

for whatever reason, blue, i've never thought of the Powers as analagous to god, or gods. and i've read all the books, but not for awhile. and since i'm in jordan, i can't re-read them...*sob!*

and yes, PM, "almost" any religion,. even if the Powers did do the One's bidding, the idea would completely clash with Islam.

and slash, i think you misread my post. i didn't say there wasn't a god...

i get your point birdhead, don't fret!

-peri (thanx guys!)

[Lee Enfield-Burke]

DD seems to have added some material to the Errantry Concordance that sheds some light on some of the points raised above:


Powers that Be | Demiurge | Michael Power | Prometheus

[Sean L.]

Lee posted in the forums? Amazing! And on a non-administrative topic! Huzzah, let there be more.

It seems that the Powers and the One are written in such a way that they don't have to clash with every religion - As Tui says, some of the Powers appear in multiple canons - thus implying that perhaps, all of the religions are really one religion with certain changed aspects.

And as our forum admin's links give you, the powers are not omnipotent or omnisicent - perhaps they would fit in Islam as, uh, prophets?

[magicalmike]

Also, in A wizard alone, i belive, Tom mentions that the story of the choice in the exeptance of entropy is universal among all religons. Thus all religons have some similarity to what is considered fact in the Yw universe.

[Onua Wingstar]

And as our forum admin's links give you, the powers are not omnipotent or omnisicent - perhaps they would fit in Islam as, uh, prophets?

I see the Powers as being something like the Angels: they have varying degrees of power and knowledge and in some religions they could be grouped as "gods." (I'm recalling a line in Wizard Abroad that goes something like, "Even the lesser Powers were mistaken for gods in the old days.")
The Angels - or the lesser gods, or the Powers - might know more than some humans, but only the One, like the one God in Christianity, knows it all.

[airspades]

Actually, I think that DD pulled a modern Chronicles of Narnia. i dont know its a hunch. What got me started on it was that in wizard's dilemma nita went to church and she was in the ONES house.Then the story the lone power one of the most beautiful and powerful fell, (remind u of anyone in the real world.) The one's champion is sometimes called michael and the spear of light?and the other powers i agree i picture them as angels and archangels doing the will of the one. The place called Timeheart remind u of anything?

i think diane duane has a message in faith for all people. the differnt species the different races all have the same wizardry that comes from the same place just in different forms and shapes. WE ARE ALL BROTHERS AND SISTERS UNITED UNDER THE ONE.

Merged two posts - you can edit your own posts to add to them, see the Board FAQ - Peter.

[bluesalamanders]

I disagree entirely. Chronicles of Narnia is about Christianity alone and YW may include or encompass some aspects of Christianity and Christian mythology but specifically includes aspects of many different mythologies and religions, as well as adding new twists all its own.

I imagine Nita would have found a synagogue or mosque just as much the One's house as a church; she was simply used to going to church, from when she was young and her mother took her.

The One's Champion was also called Prometheus and Athena and Lugh and Thor (if I remember correctly).

Blue~

[Birdhead]

Then the story the lone power one of the most beautiful and powerful fell, (remind u of anyone in the real world.)

Um, no; no, it doesn't. Please, do enlighten me.

You would do well to recall that while, say, the Winged Defender is identified with Michael, it is also identified with Athene, for example. if seeking to demonstrate an overwhelmingly Christian trend- as "pulling an Narnia" would need to be - you probably need evidence without glaring counterexamples!

[Peter Murray]

Originally posted by DD:
I wouldn't assume anything whatsoever about my religion, if I were you.

See this old topic for her comments on the Powers and religion.

Quoth airspades:
Then the story the lone power one of the most beautiful and powerful fell, (remind u of anyone in the real world.)

Somehow, I'm just not that comfortable equating the Lone Power with Hugh Grant.

The Spear of Light from AWAb comes from Irish mythology, unless I misread that very badly, not Christianity.

Timeheart - yes, it reminds me of the Elysian Fields of Greek mythology. It certainly doesn't match anything I remember about Heaven from church.