New non-human wizards?

[meteorite]

Anyone want to discuss/speculate on the other non-human wizards mentioned in the Feline Worlds? We've already heard from cats and saurians, and it was mentioned that there are wizards in the canine and avian realms. I suspect that any class of living beings may produce wizards, especially since we've seen various offworlds and their wizardly inhabitants through the Worldgates. There is already a race of sentient computers, courtesy of Dairine, practicing magic.

I wouldn't mind hearing about or from the dogs and birds who are wizards in our world!

[captivedream]

Well, I don't know if this is right, but doesn't a race have to have a certain amount of intelligence to have wizardry?

[no]

A species would have to have a certain amount of intelligence to have wizards if only becausethey would need to be able to understand why there is wizardry.

[Civi]

Well, it seems to me that most forms of life are quite intelligent. Take the trees and other plant forms for example. It seems to me that the smartest forms of life are always the first wizards in individual places, yet others always seem to follow. For example, in the ocean, Whales were the first wizards, on land it seems Humans and Cats came first. after these came others; dogs, dolphins, ect... See what I mean?

-IV-

[meteorite]

For that matter, how would a wizard that doesn't use some sort of recorded information receive the Oath? I know the wizard-cats get pertinent information passed on from the Queen, as a sort of psychic 'whisper', but how would you find out you had the potential for wizardry in the first place? A mentoring program, maybe, and when/if your teacher thought you were ready, "Okay, if this is reallywhat you want, repeat after me..." Many cultures have extensive oral traditions, but this seems one place where it could get tricky.

[moongazer]

I see no problem with new nonhuman wizards-if reptiles can figure it out, so can the other species. My biggest question is-will there be more from the Book of Night With Moon With Moon pride?

So can members of ANY species become a wizard under the right circumstances?

From what i can see anybody and athing could be a wizard if the gift is offered

i think the potential of a species to produce wizards entails a certain level of culture - seeing as all wizards mentioned seem to have wizardry fit into their religion/mythology.
in other words, if roaches (for example) don't have gods - or at least belief systems, there is nothing on which to base the explanation of wizardry.

I don't think believing in gods as a species has anything to do with it, in my opinion it's the individual

[Birdhead]

I like the god thing, sort of. Except I bet there are atheist wizards (before they get their wizardry.) Remember, the Powers don't just fit into one belief system, they fit them all- reincarnated as various. So, for example, The Winged Defender is also Athena, Minerva, Thor, Prometheus (that must be confusing. He stole fire from the greek Gods, whcih incluse Athena- unless she wasn't born yet. Whcih she might not have been. My chronology is not too accurate.)
However, having a belief system implies a certain... sophistication of thought, sort of. Or rather a certain complexity- questioning where we come from. To have that you need self-awareness, also some idea of past and future, maiking connections- not just living in the here-and-now, as (we think) animals do. And I think you would need that to be a wizard- making connections and consequences. so it just depends which animals/aliens/vegetables/minerals you think have that.
Ka Kite
Tui

Tuibird in Aotearoa
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Chocolate lover extraordinaire...
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My mission: Bringing Maori to the world!
ON HOLIDAY! Wooo!

[Rysade]

I think that finding wizardry would eliminate the need for religion, actually. Having faith in a religion becomes unessecary when you no longer need to beleive, because you know. Atheist wizards would say to themselves "Well, if that's the way the world works, ok. I can live with that." Probably, the atheists would have some sort of logical explination for the abscense of a creator, so having themselves proved wrong, they'd just go with it. I hope that's what would happen anyway. Some people can be rather unreasonable.

The other people, the beleivers, would probably react one of two ways. One, they would react like this: "NEAT! Always hoped I would meet you someday!" They'd be irked by some of the changes in the way they beleived it worked, but that would be ok, because they would get used to knowing that things are different. That's one possibility. The other possibility, the less fortunate one, involves the person screaming about some trick that an evil power was playing on them, and shutting themselves out. Which is understandable. Some people are raised to beleive that the creator(s) of the universe would never reveal him/herself(s), and that the one before them claiming to be a Power must be one of the evil powers, rather than a good one.

It would be interesting to see how an agnostic (doesn't know if there is a god/deity or not) would react to the knowlege of the Power's presence. I suppose that they would be kinda borderline, and they might need only one simple thing, one shred of unarguable, simple proof (say, going to the moon) to change their minds.

Hey, that was a fun one!

--Dai Stihó

"You have no devices to configure!" -Macintosh Alert Message
"Indeed you are powerful, as the Emperor has forseen" - Darth Vader

[Birdhead]

Well, I agree about the atheists. (I also just like DD's theism a LOT better than I do the others I know, so...) What I like about the religion thing (and I think I agree about wizardry eliminating religion . Except what about Nita's mum? OK, she wasn't a wizrd, but she was Christian. She definitely believed. And also, an important element of belief and religion for some people (people I know, by the way. I'm not just talking through my atheist hat) is the faith. the very act of believing in something, and trusting to it, you know? Mind you, I guess those people would perhaps not be the sort that would be offered wizardry. On the other hand... actually, I'm not sure what I mean here. I will come back tomorrow having had a think about it.)
Anyway, the religion thing. What I think is that having a religious system is not neccessary. However, all or most of the races that have wizardry would have had, at some point, a religion, or some description- not neccessarily a theism, by the way. I think this because, from my own knowledge of "primitive" races (which only extends to humans, I suppose) seems to be that, once they reach a certain level of, uh, sophistication isn't the right word but let's use it, around the point where they start thinking abstract thoughts, they try to answer them. And for at leasty some of the time, a religion of some description is the best way to answer those sorts of questions. Ethical quesions, the right and wrong sort, questions fo origin, that sort of thing. I think that sort of complexity, especially the ethical questions, is needed to become a wizard, because wizardry is about right and wrong. You need to have some understanding of those concepts to be a wizard.
Ka kite
Tui

Tuibird in Aotearoa
Conservationist, Scientist, and proud of both!
Chocolate lover extraordinaire...
Ahahahaha, ahahahahaha, ahahahaha...
My mission: Bringing Maori to the world!
ON HOLIDAY! Wooo!

[Rysade]

Oh, Well Done! Very good post.

I agree completely on the early human / abstract thinking / explaining the world part of the post, it was actually brilliantly phrased.

Naturally, a wizard needs a concept of right and wrong, or at minimum a concept of empathy, the ability to sympathize. Without sympathy, there is no desire to help. But too rigid a definition of right and wrong would interfere with their wizardry. If they were raised from birth to beleive that Jews were evil, for example, then that would interfere with their ability to help. It would be even more severe were they to have very rigid morals.

To go to the top of your post (I skipped down to the bottom half)...

Nita's mom's a christian, I suppose, or that's at least implied. I suppose her beleifs hadn't changed much because she had some distance to the whole thing. It wasn't her in there mixing it up with the Lone One. Well, not for a while, anyway. But also, what she had seen from Nita's involvment had only supported what she had beleived right from the start, with nothing to say that she was wrong. I can imagine myself in the position of watching wizardry happpen around me, and I imagine that I have the same beleifs that she does, and it seems to me that she would react with a sort of shrug, as if it's really not very different one way or the other, and the Powers don't discourage any sort of religion, so she has no problem doing it the way she always has.

Heh.
Take that.

--Dai Stihó

Phivarigo, doncha know?
"You have no devices to configure!" -Macintosh Alert Message

[Birdhead]

Taken.
T
PS: Thanks!

Tuibird in Aotearoa
Conservationist, Scientist, and proud of both!
Chocolate lover extraordinaire...
Ahahahaha, ahahahahaha, ahahahaha...
My mission: Bringing Maori to the world!
ON HOLIDAY! Wooo!