The Topic of Great Randomness

[Peter Murray]

I know you said in chat that you didn't mean it that way, Aurora, but it does sound as if you're wishing depression on them. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Some time ago, I went there, and I did that. (I feel compelled to say, now that I'm feeling better, that nobody gave me a t-shirt, though.)

I think staying with my sister for a few days round her birthday shocked me into realising how bad I'd let my house get, and that got me out of it.

[Aurora]

Sorry. I was just VERY VERY frustrated. I don't like it when people judge others on something they've never felt. I know I judge people and I stereotype people and so on... but I don't try to.

Crookedfrog was wrong. She said that depressed people DON'T think about how others will feel. How does she know what we think? I don't know what she thinks and I don't presume to. Depression is tricky, because everyone reacts differently. And I assure you- many depressed people DO think about how their loved ones would feel. And it makes them even more miserable, because then they feel trapped. My friend, whom I asked, said that basically, the knowledge that it would hurt other people hurts her even more, because it's trapping- She wants to die, but she doesn't want to make them miserable, and it makes her sort of frustrated and trapped, and even more miserable. And in the end, I think for many, they just can't take it anymore.

Okay, I didn't get a t-shirt. But I got a charm bracelet. There's one charm on there for each of my closest friends- the Yellow Ribbon, a horseshoe, a cat, a gold shamrock, a question mark, a maple leaf, a coffee cup, a butterfly, and I HAD a green turtle, but it fell off... *sad* so I have to get a new charm for him. But it has to be green. Because green is his colour.

For me? I had friends. They held me when I cried, they didn't judge me when I cut myself, they listened when I wanted to talk, they didn't question how I know so many suicide methods. They were there for me... in a way that means just so much.

[Birdhead]

Talking about this makes me the angriest I ever get, and you know I can get pretty damn angry. I have never been suicidal. I have never been depressed. I certainly don't seek to judge those who are or have been. However i reject the idea, presented to me on several occasions by various people, that this then makes me unfit to pass judgement on anything.

I don't think people who commit suicide are selfish. but I do think suicide is essentially a selfish action. For the suicidal it seems the only way out, and I appreciate that I don't really know what that feels like (though I do know what it's like to watch someone suicidal and believe me, that sucks too.) However for family and friends of those who attempt or do commit suicide it's probably just as hard. Guilt plus grief plus what may or may not be anotehr unhappy life and you don't end up seriously cheerful. My friend's grandmother dies of a stroke at eighty, for crying out loud, and she cried for three years. Suicide would be worse. I know the suicidal imagine that nobody cares. But that doesn't lessen the fact that in every person's life there is someone who will mourn them.

*throws things at everyone* Not talking about this doesn't make it go away, I know. But talking about it all the time doesn't feel healthy to me either. Sometimes there are really good things. Dwelling on them might actually, you know, cheer things up a bit. Instead of getting more depressed and pissy.

[Aurora]

In the first book of Confidential Confessions, the main character, Manatsu says, "They always tell you that when times get rough, remember the good times. But what if... you have no good times?"

It was very much true.

Suicide might be a selfish action, but it IS the only way out of this life, unless you're going to wait to die.

The most comforting thing anyone ever told me was that no matter how rough it gets, I control one thing- Whether or not I continue. It's the most comforting thing I've ever been told.

I don't like it when I'm told I'm selfish. Am I selfish? Is PM selfish? Are my friends selfish? I highly resent being judged as "selfish" thank you very much. I would like an apology for what I consider a very personal insult.

And if you say "No insult was intended," I would like to inform you I don't accept that excuse. It doesn't matter whether or not it was intended. If insult was taken, one apologises. I've apologised for god knows what, even though I never knew what I wrote that was so insulting.

[db_pr]

Being selfish and comitting selfish actions are very different things.

[crookedfrog21]

Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I though these forums were all about expressing the way you felt about different topics and such and not getting yelled at for it. I am sorry that you have had to go through all of those things with your friends and such, and believe me, I haven't gone without trauma. I AM NOT SORRY, however, for expressing the way I feel about a certain topic. I am sorry that I stepped on some toes, but if that is what has to happen to let me have my opinion, then, to hell with it, there are going to be some broken feet.

And Deigo was right. I wasn't meaning to judge people, I was talking about the act itself. And yes, in my opinion, the are very different.

[Diane Duane]

Okay, it's time for a "time out".

This thread is beginning to heat up in ways I don't care for, and which ill represent the basic sense of these forums as I've always conceived them. As a result, I'm instructing Lee to shut down the TOGR for twenty-four hours, and I want those involved in the "depression" dialogue to take this time out to sit still and breathe a little and think about the tone of recent messages.

Depression is a complex topic. Its causes and motivations are rarely simple. Suicide is an even more complex problem, and its causes and motivations are hardly ever as simple or clearcut as some here have suggested or seem to believe. I speak from first-hand experience, having counseled / worked with many depressed people while I was still doing psych. Some of you need to go do some reading on the subject, so that your opinions will be informed.


Also: regardless of which "side" some of the participants are on in this discussion, a lack of basic courtesy is being manifested around here, on all sides, that I find disturbing. Those who have more knowledge / experience than others have a responsibility to educate them without beating them up or being rude to them or dismissive of them. Increased experience increases your requirement to be courteous / understanding when discussing the topic with others -- it doesn't decrease it. If some of the others' attitudes make you angry, your responsibility is to put your anger aside and express yourself in such a way as to get people to understand without making them angry in turn...since that's one of the more effective ways to make sure they don't get your message, whatever it might be. Meanwhile, others have the responsibility to maintain their opinions courteously when they disagree...and also to check to see whether they're as right as they think they are. (For what it's worth, since being right is not always everything.)

In particular, though, the tone of this discussion needs to be much improved. So the participants in this part of the topic all get a day's breathing space to reread the present messages and consider how you've been treating your fellow Forum members.

Lee will reopen the topic for posting on Saturday morning her time. Meanwhile, cousins, think.

[Danzrgrl101]

DD When are we going to shut down the TOGR?? O my Goodness I woke up this morning and I was totaly freaking out! I Forgot who I was for a second and Where I was! hahahahahaha! Isn't that the strangest thing? The samething happened to me during the state tests, and after we are finished with the section then we can read or draw or sleep,(Because the tests are in the mornings) Well I decided to sleep, because I got finished early and I didn't feel like reading So i fell asleep and when the bell rang I forgot where to go so i asked my friend and she looked at me like i was Crazy! (how rude I mean the least she could have done was go along with me so i wouldn't feel so dumb... But then again... !



<span class="ev_code_PINK">"My horns are holding up my hallo but my hallo is getting to heavy for the horns to hold up...HELP"</span>

[BelieverInWizardry]

LOL! It's already been shut down. I guess that when you came on, it had been opened again. I came on after it had been closed and I had no idea what had happened 'cause I hadn't been here. So, WHAT THE HECK DID YOU PEOPLE DO!!!! I"VE BEEN DIEING TO BE RANDOM!!!!!!!!!!!! I GOTA A NEW AVIE!!!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!!!!! TOGR IS BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'M SO HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Grrr. My friend's over and she's telling me to get off. She's TOP. Evil person...

MY BROTHR AND SISTER GOT KITTENS!! One's name is Taulha, (from AWA) and one is Max, but he doesn't look like a Max to me so I'm calling him Kit!

[Zgirl]

*hugs BIW* I totally agree.*
Danzgirl! I love your siggy! I want it!!!
I've been dying to be random for so long I had to do it in the Bananas topic.
BIW-If you read DD's post you could see why it was shut down.
Let's see we have a bunch of friends here:
Danzgrl is AngelStars friend. (I'm so excited that Angel_Star is back! Yay now we can continue our story on Dawn of the Conquerers Age!)
And TOP is BIW's friend. See TOP! Just because of your name you've become popular here.

[Gryphon]

Nnnng.... I don't feel so good. First I got up at 11:20. That's really really late for me. Then right after I had cereal and cracker pizzas (Buck Whiley's invention). After that we went to see Spiderman 2. My morning was kinda rushed. But that was a great movie. Afterwards dad comment on how wazziz name jumped from the dock to the boat. I was too tired to pick that out, but ah well. Mep. My dad read the comics so he knows what that means.

Aug, BiW, your avie doesn't look so good. It was killed when you shrunk it. Maybe you could crop it, then shrink?

Go back a few pages, 234, I think, and read from there. You can watch what happened.

Heh. A lot of members went on a vacation at VGDawn. Bosco has been sending messages to her sister telling her to post for her. But her sister *grumbles* won't, so Raven is doing it for her. *Thanks Raven!* I don't think any of those are members here.

I love to write so everyonce in a while I sit down and type up a long post. It's wonderful. I know I want to be an author, but I suppose I'm not confident in my work enough.

Join VGDawn!!! It's so much fun!!!!!

[Peter Murray]

Huh? Gryphon wants poor BiW to go back 234 pages to find out what happened?

Are those "cracker pizzas" or "cereal and cracker pizzas"? What are they, anyway?

Was it Doc Ock that jumped from the dock? Sounds poetic, if so .

Yay ToGR!

[Artemis Wolfang]

Does anyone else notice that the ONE mp3 that you need is like NOWHERE on the internet?! *dies*

[Gryphon]

PM:
Huh? Gryphon wants poor BiW to go back 234 pages to find out what happened?

Are those "cracker pizzas" or "cereal and cracker pizzas"? What are they, anyway?

Was it Doc Ock that jumped from the dock? Sounds poetic, if so.

Err woops. I meant page 234.

Cracker Pizzas!!!

Buck Whioley came over to our house, my bro invited him, and for lunch they experimented. They got out Ritz crackers that my brother had bought a few days ago for absolutely no reason. *shakes head* You put on tomatoe sauce, then cheeze. I like to use the yellow and white kind. Well, actualy the bag says that there are four kinds of cheeze, but I only see two (ahh, don't comment! I know NOTHING about cheese, and yeah, I am pretty oblivious). Then you put it all [quoting my brother] "in the microwave for 15 seconds or until it starts to explode." They're very very good. Mmmm...

Doc Ock jumped from the dock... Haha, you're great PM. No, it was umm wazzer name's boy friend, husband to be or not.

[Zgirl]

Artemis! I'll find the mp3 for you. I love finding stuff on the internet. Avie's, siggys, (mp3's) you name it I'll find it! (for four small payments of 10.95!)
Okay you posted Random Team Assemble so I'm gonna be random.

Don't you feel sad when you're inside typing away on the computer when you could have the time of your life playing outside???