What Twilight Says About Our Youth

[Tuttle]

I've never actually read any of these books, but one of problems with it that seems clear from pretty much anyone talking about it is the suggestion that codependence is a good thing.

People argue whether there is abuse, and whether Bella wants to be submissive, but there doesn't seem to be much argument over whether they can stand to be apart. The relationship seems to be very codependent - they need each other to be happy they can't stand to be apart. This attracts people, the idea of being needed, but a codependent relationship isn't a healthy one. To be truly that reliant on each other ends up hurting both of you, and not only when you're forced to be apart. I'm afraid for people expecting this and wanting this.

Are people weak or abusive, I don't know I've not read it, but from everything I've heard the relationship is wrong, but its what people are wanting - that to me is a problem, even if not a serious one.

[Trialia]

I have to say, I am of the viewpoint that considers Edward to be an emotionally abusive character at the very least. But I've endured that kind of abuse from someone on whom I was dependent at the time, so perhaps that allows me to see it more clearly in someone different...

To be honest, the main reason I can't stand these books is the writing itself. Stephenie Meyer's style gets right up my nose, and her characters seem generally flat to me.

However, bookgirl, if you know a lot of selfless teenage girls, you're definitely in a very unusual place - even when I was a teenage girl I knew very few who were ever truly selfless when it came to other people, and the majority of those who appeared to be usually turned out to be trying it on for their own benefit (and not in terms of growing as a person). That may sound cynical, but it is the case quite often.

[bookgirl]

96bw- Don't worry, New Moon was much better than Twilight! I actually enjoyed it a bit. The funniest part is where Jacob takes his shirt off. All the women in the room gasp. (And they are usually ladies in their 40' and 50's).
I agree with you, I never saw Edward as being abusive. Overprotective seems like a good way to describe it.

I like what you said Garrett, that's a good way of describing her.

[96bookworms]

Last year, there was a HUGE Twilight obsession going in on in our school (and I mean HUGE )I resisted the whole thing, even though my friends were begging me to read them. I just said no, but then, one of my other friends got the first book for me for as early Christmas present, so I felt that I had to read it, to be nice. I really liked it, but then I really like almost all the books I read.

I think that Edward wasn't so much abusive, as overprotective. I liked Bella because she does have SOME good things about her. For instance, she does do her schoolwork, and she really likes to read ( that's an automatic thumbs up in my book )

I didn't enjoy New Moon at all though, because it was overall very awkward.....I'm going to see moon tomorrow, because my friend asked if I wanted to go see it, and that's what he's doing for his (belated) birthday "party" I would feel bad saying no. I rented the Twilight movie, and watched it on my own. I can't believe how much it sucked!! It was probably one of the worst movies I have ever seen!!!!! The actors sounded like they were reading off of a script!! (sorry, I get agitated over it )

I definitely think that any of Pierce's books would make a better obsession than Twilight. Or Duane, for that matter. In fact, I could think of several better obsessions!!

Well, here's the contribution of a random 13 year old!

[Frivs]

That's an interesting way to look at it, Garret, and it does give her a little more redemption in that light xD I suppose for me it's what she wants to be an equal to that is upsetting. Wanting to be seen as an equal in the eyes of someone who abuses you is not something I would consider brave or healthy.

And I will write a more proper reply this afternoon when I'm done with finals, but I just had to say, Topic of the Week nomination? o_o Thanks guys xD

[Garrett Fitzgerald]

I used to think that Bella was a bad example, but consider: she picks her relationship, and doesn't let anyone, including Edward, tell her she can't have it. Her goal isn't to be submissive and protected, but to be an equal -- and by the fourth book, she establishes herself as not only an equal, but superior in some ways: trivially clobbering the strongest vamp they know in arm wrestling (I know, only temporary), and shielding their whole group against some of the strongest vamps in the world. So, it's not quite as bad as presented.

But I still wouldn't let my girls date a vamp if I could help it. Not even Spike -- after all, Real Vampires Don't Sparkle. :-)

Edit: Oh, and re: self-inserts -- my daughter came up with an IMNSHO brilliant way to pull one off recently. :-)

[Deus Ira]

I aggree with everything yall are saying except for one thing, Its not only girls. I work at a small movie theater in my town and we got new moon the day it came out. You would not believe how many guys and little boys I saw that were totally fracking out before and after they walked in the movie. And I know what your gonna say, they were with there girlfriends, and I saw a lot of single guys watch it. I myself have not read the books ,and Im not planing on it, but all of the people around me have. Stephenie Meyer did no research on vampire or wereanimal lore before writing these books, Im just sayin.

[bookgirl]

Hmmm... perhaps the reason that I enjoyed it (enjoyed it, not loved it) was because I read it at just the right age. I was 16 when I read the first book. I was old enough not to think that love was really like how it is in the Twilight Saga, but I was also young enough not to read it and find all the problems. I think that if I read the books for the first time now, (I'm working on a Masters of Literature and it has affected how I feel about what I read), I might have a totally different opinion. I didn't think they were written all that badly. Though she did have a tendency to mix up the words "past" and "passed".

[Margaret Chan]

Bella isn't realistic. In fact, I'd love to compare the "love" Bella and Edward have to each other to puppy love. I think Romeo and Juliet would have had a much better chance at a good relationship, if they you know didn't die. Juliet was practically Romeo's rebound and I'm fairly skeptical of their puppy love that they had for each other.

Unfortunately, I think the girls of my generation (I'm of the mid-to-upper age range at 20 years, there are TwiMoms apparently) do not see it the way others do. It's the fantasy of having a man wholly "love" you that makes it. I'm not surprised that people would idolize living needing only the guy you love and not wanting to live without him, and giving up when without him. Or the idolization of their love is just that! Love. Which I'm skeptical of, of all things when that's the reason.

All the stuff I read of the series screamed "submission to abusive relationship" and unhealthy. I compared a sheet of "You might be in an abusive relation ship if..." statements from the National Domestic Violence Hotline and at many times saw similarities to the list.

It doesn't help that I thought the books were just horribly written. It reminds me of my first forays into fanfiction when I was 13 and always wanting to self-insert myself into the fantasy world I can go into with fanfiction. With added gratuitous use of the thesaurus.

[bookgirl]

Frivs- I think you are being a tad harsh on Bella. Now I will be the first to tell you that the Twilight Saga is by no means great literature, however the characters do have a few redeeming features. First of all, Bella loves unconditionally. She forgives quickly and doesn't hold grudges. While not all of her traits are admirable, she still has traits that are good.

Ink-Knight- I agree that there are a lot of heroines that are much better than Bella. Much stronger. One of my favorite books series came out at the same time as Twilight, it's called Poison Study. If you are looking for a [I]strong[I] female lead, check out those books. Yelena is incredible. However, I really don't think that it's fair to say that all female youths are like that. Sure there are a lot of airheads out there, but I'd say the majority are selfless, and very smart. Maybe my opinion is affected because as a Junior in college I'm around more responsible people than I was when I was in high school.

Anyway, that's my two cents. But I still think that Nita would grind Bella into the dust in a fight.

[Ink.Knight]

Okay, seriously. Thank you! Pierce's heroines are so much more believable than Bella Fridgin' Swann. Beka faces the thin and watery line between good and bad. Alanna and Kel have to deal with prejudice at every turn. Daine is faced with insanity and the terror of losing herself. And Aly has to sneak around most of the time, though she likes that so I'm not sure how much of a hardship that is. And don't even get me started on listing what Neets and them have to do on a daily basis! I may just be a cynic, but I do believe that Bella is a reflection on the female youth of today. Fanatical, solipsistic, agrravatingly mindless, I could go on for ages on this subject!

But anyway, thanks. For putting into words an feeling that's been swimming around in my head since Twilight became a huge fan source.

[Frivs]

Funnily, I was quite pleased to discover that there was a bit of Twilight discussion going on here. I find it an interesting subject.

Let me say first off that I read the first 2.5 books of the series. After that I simply could not force myself to read any more, especially not when there was a new Pierce novel out (If you haven't read Twilight yet and wish to, make sure you precede this by not reading any other literature beforehand for at least a month.)


In general, I find the novels to be exceedingly poorly written, with little to no characterization or growth, no redeeming message, and so many plot holes it's hard to keep yourself from falling. However, what really...irks me about the series, is not the quality of writing, but the content.

Twilight is marketed as a romance novel for teens. Edward and Jacob are now being considered icons of romance, and I've heard the phrase "I wish I was Bella!" so many times I can't count. But when we examine what is actually in the text, the relationship portrayed is entirely unhealthy.

Edward is extremely abusive. He throws Bella into cars, kidnaps her, holds her against her will. Jacob is not a lot better, what with pinning her down and forcing kisses on her.

Bella's life is completely and totally consumed by Edward. She literally does not function without him. She gives up friends and interests for him, puts herself in danger for him, lies to her parents for him, etc. Essentially, Bella's only desire in life is to be with Edward. She has no goals or aspirations beyond this. She doesn't care about her education unless Edward wants her to. She doesn't care about her -life- unless Edwards wants her to. And when Edward leaves, it is only another man (Jacob) who convinces her to function at all.

When I look at the young girls who are idolizing this character, it truly concerns me. Wanting to "be Bella" is essentially wanting to be a young woman with no goals, no motive, no interests, no desire to educate herself, no friends -- unless Edward wants her to do it, she doesn't.

And to romanticize Edward as the "perfect boyfriend" is even more disturbing. The perfect man is one who is physically abusive, and causes you to give up any sense of your own self?

With fantastic female role models around like Nita, Dairine, Hermione, Alanna, Kel...the list goes on and on... why is it that Bella is the one who is receiving the attention? With male figures like Kit, Harry, Ron, George, who respect and uplift the women around them, why pine over a loser like Edward?

I feel that the world would be much better off if Nita was the girl our youth wanted to be. Strong, capable, intelligent, and self-empowering. I just hope that Twilight is a fad, and not a true reflection upon the state of our teenage girls.