If YOU were in YW...

[permafry_42]

so i guess i'm the only person who thinks there should be more shape changers in the books? after all, just imagine if wizards could temporarily become kids again so that they could temporarily handle big problems. I'm sure darine at least would love to (temporarily of course) become her all powerful 11 year old state again so that she could for example have saved Roshaun's life. Or, just think about how much more powerful someone like Darrell could be if he was learning from S'reee as a whale while helping the human wizards as a human. Darell would then essentially be as powerful as 1 of the powers. So ask yourself: why is shape change used so rarely when it is such a useful power?

[estar9821]

Perhaps there could be repercussions for shape-shifting that aren't mentioned in the books? If wizards could have that much power that easily, I'm sure they would take advantage of it if they could.

[dorotheia]

Deep Wizardry, there were two shapeshifts: Nita's, and Kit's, in order to participate in the Song. I think this was an example of an extreme case, where a participant needed to be found and shapeshifting was the only way for that to happen. The Song couldn't be postponed to find others.

There were risks to both Kit's and Nita's situations (besides the dangers of the Song itself), and the whalesark failed on Kit once. Nita's way, through sharing of life-blood, seems easier, but that was also only made possible by S'reee's emergency. I don't think that would happen in normal circumstances either. S'reee didn't offer Kit her life-blood, did she?

[Ink.Knight]

I'm with Sapphire, only canines to be even more specific for me. Wolves probably, though dogs are more likely. Anyway, I'd be bonded with a pack, able to shift into a wolf from healing the way Neets did I suppose, and working with them. I've actually made up a character who gets her manual the same way they do, or at least the way I imagine them getting it.

[Cait]

I think any kind of shapeshifting would just make everything too easy. I mean, looking at it from outside the practical applications in wizardry angle, and just looking at it as a fictional device... Lots of authors use that kind of thing as a get-out-of-jail-free card. It's almost something I hate seeing in books because the story tends to go downhill directly thereafter. Seems to me also like shapeshifting doesn't fit in the wizarding world very easily, not like everything else fits that folks have mentioned, although it's an interesting thing to think about.

Plus, Permafry, you kind of supplied your own answer when you were talking about Darryl. It would totally unbalance things- you don't want a wizard as strong as the Powers. I'm not sure the universe or wizardry would let that happen, you know? Plus no one shapeshifts without a somewhat unusual circumstance- the whalesark with Kit and that whole lifeblood thing when Nita turns into a whale. It's not like they use a spell, and I can't imagine a spell for that would be very easy, cause you'd have to change your name to describe you as a different creature entirely, and then you'd have to write the spell to change all of your parts to be the right shape, and reroute vessels and veins and things to the right parts and it'd be a huge 'ol mess. Not to mention the power input required for that. It'd be nuts!

[permafry_42]

I think any kind of shapeshifting would just make everything too easy. I mean, looking at it from outside the practical applications in wizardry angle, and just looking at it as a fictional device... Lots of authors use that kind of thing as a get-out-of-jail-free card. It's almost something I hate seeing in books because the story tends to go downhill directly thereafter. Seems to me also like shapeshifting doesn't fit in the wizarding world very easily, not like everything else fits that folks have mentioned, although it's an interesting thing to think about.

Plus, Permafry, you kind of supplied your own answer when you were talking about Darryl. It would totally unbalance things- you don't want a wizard as strong as the Powers. I'm not sure the universe or wizardry would let that happen, you know? Plus no one shapeshifts without a somewhat unusual circumstance- the whalesark with Kit and that whole lifeblood thing when Nita turns into a whale. It's not like they use a spell, and I can't imagine a spell for that would be very easy, cause you'd have to change your name to describe you as a different creature entirely, and then you'd have to write the spell to change all of your parts to be the right shape, and reroute vessels and veins and things to the right parts and it'd be a huge 'ol mess. Not to mention the power input required for that. It'd be nuts!

"Those who serve the powers become the powers" remember? and besides, all it takes is imagination as was said is Deep Wizardry. "It's all in the being". the power to change would be there together with the wizardry, and that is the power i would make use of were i in the universe. Not to mention that wizards that would have the experiences of different forms of life would probably be useful for the powers, as they could for example employ them to establish peace between the 2 species through the power of empathy when all else fails (for example the movie Avatar). This is just my mental rattlings though. I just think that it would make sense that there would be some wizards that specialize in shape change, since it would be a useful power.

Also i have to disagree that it would be a very demanding amount of power. Our bodies change all the time naturally, and all the "spell" would be doing is to temporarily making use of that change to become what the person wants to change into.

I do agree though that the use of it as a main plot element in Deep Wizardry is more than enough, but i'm sure that somewhere in the universe there would be at least 1 person that would be able to use the power on a regular basis. They wouldn't have to be a main character, but it would be a nice way of showing the creativity behind the universe, and that the universe is going about its business while Nita and kit are having a steady relationship together.

This is just my opinion though, so don't take this too seriously

[estar9821]

Permafry, there already ARE characters that have the power and will to change shape on a regular basis. The Powers that Be. Remember how Macchu Picchu (sp? I don't have any of the books on hand) turned out to be a Power. I agree that it provides the shape changer with a lot of power, and I certainly see the uses, but I think that shape-changing itself, unless of a very special reason under unique circumstances, is the realm of the Powers. If a wizard character had that power, than they might as well be one of the Powers.

Sorry for my overruse of the word power.

[Cait]

@Permafry: But by taking the phrase "Those who serve the Powers become the Powers" that literally, every wizard would have to be a Power, because all the wizards serve the Powers. Right? Also, our bodies may change naturally, but humans don't naturally change into dogs or anything other than humans. We don't really do much but grow larger, other than some bones fusing and all. Yeah sure maybe changing into a close relative like a chimp wouldn't take loads of work on the skeleton or anything else, but the further away you get from our family tree, the more differences there are. To change into a bird would require losing organs and gaining new ones, unfusing and refusing bones, and all the reworking of the muscular and skeletal and pulmonary systems- it'd be a nightmare.

I just like arguing Devil's Advocate, by the way, and you hit on the kind of thing I especially love to think about, being a biology major. Lemme know when you want me to shut up.

@Estar: First, every time I see your name I think, "To be?" and then I go on and think, "Or not to be. That is the question." Second, it does become rather difficult when the things using powers are called Powers, doesn't it? All of a sudden you've got 5 powers in one sentence for at least 2 different things! Wheeeeee!

[Cait]

@Estar: I know, right? I can't imagine what it'd be like changing the entire code of what makes your body what it is. I reckon something like trying to change the programming code of a computer. Of course, I know there's different programming languages, but from what I understand, it'd be near impossible to just change the programming code without rebuilding, right? I know some stuff about computers, but once we stray into programming I'm a mess.

Really I'm better at living things. It's only because I'm a biology geek that the idea of fusing bones and building new organs would be the first thing I thought of, I think.

And now that I think of it, you know, they've got those handy mochteroofs that Filif builds, which are changing how they look from outside, even if they don't change the body of whoever is operating them. But I do wonder, if one was built that had wings, could they fly in them? Or was that kind of thing explained somewhere and I missed it?

[permafry_42]

they've got those handy mochteroofs that Filif builds, which are changing how they look from outside, even if they don't change the body of whoever is operating them. But I do wonder, if one was built that had wings, could they fly in them? Or was that kind of thing explained somewhere and I missed it?

i'd guess the could fly since it allowed them to be able to see both like they usually do, and through the eyes of the bugs. that indicates to me that they could fly if they wanted to.

[elzefa]

I think my wizardry would come in book form or direct to my mind like the Peredixes (sp) cause I'm always losing stuff.
My wizardry-talent would probably involve far-sight or seeing the future like Nita. I have a good imagination.

[nita13579]

My character would probably start out as a non-wizard, then end up becoming a wizard, but not a powerful one. Talking to living things like trees may be my specialty, for i have a green thumb. I would be from Earth, of course!

[spock42]

hmm. i dont really know. the obvious answer to this question would be "i would be good and help knock evil," but being evil might be fun....
or being like the trancendent pig. not being good or evil or anything, just being (and occasionally being a major headache for wizards that want answers)
good question