Big Meow (Spoiler Thread)

[Kathy Li]

Buran, in the chapter, we're talking (I believe) Beverly Hills, so the affordability issue isn't one. [grin]

BTW, Hollywood & Highland is the nearest street corner to the Grauman's (now Mann's) Chinese Theatre. It's directly down the hill from the Hollywood(land) sign. They just put a new mall there, which also houses the Kodak Theatre (where they do the Oscars), to rejuvenate the area (prior to that it looked very very different).

PM, I considered Runyon for the exact same reason, but then I googled. He died in 1946 in NYC, which I think puts him out of the running (also that Little Miss Marker was Paramount, and The Thin Man was MGM). I figure DD will let us know before too long, though.

[Buran]

I've never been to LA. It's probably pretty obvious... Overcrowded cities aren't my thing.

I think I'll just ask about the subscription problem in person at Anthrocon. Some things are just easier when you can walk over and go "Oh, by the way..." I can put up with the wait til then. I just checked out a big fat book that will take me a while to chew through, anyway. ("Judas Unchained" if anyone is curious. I think the author is Peter Hamilton).

[Selden]

*grump*
Not Cthulhu after all


But I'm slightly surprised that DD chose the leopard instead of the puma (cougar). The black puma seems to be appropriately cryptozoological according to the Wikipedia article on black panthers.

[Nathan]

I too came up with Damon Runyon for the Silent Man almost immediately, though I was basing this, like Peter, solely on his style, as I didn't know about his throat condition. I'm actually not quite sure why I came up with him, as I can't think of anything of his I've read, though anthologies or radio broadcasts are always a possibility. (I've heard quite a few of the numbers from Guys and Dolls, but I don't think that that would be sufficient.)

Indeed, upon consulting a Runyon biography (primarily Edwin P. Hoyt's A Gentleman of Broadway, from which all quotes are taken, unless otherwise indicated), I find that there's actually quite a lot of detail that fits... except for the date. For instance, in 1943, Runyon rented comedienne Gertrude Neisen's house in Holmby Hills*, which came with her "huge Angora" Sheba, who "stole Damon's heart". Runyon also typed with his two index fingers, though that appears to have been common practice among newspapermen of the time. The nocturnal hours and sharp dressing are, perhaps, similarly generic, but they do fit, as does the apartment in New York—he traveled back and forth regularly. And while communicating by writing things down on a pad of paper would seem to be common to many people who are unable to speak, it is something for which Runyon was well known. Ssh'iivha's mention that there hasn't been another ehhif for him (at least "not the one he wants") "for a while" also matches up with the fact that Runyon separated from his second wife, Patrice, in 1944. Finally, the description matches this picture quite well.

The fact that we are in 1946 seems to rule him out, however, as in July, 1944, "he closed the house in Holmby Hills. Patrice persuaded a friend to fly Sheba ... to Miami ... and Damon came East, for the last time." (Sheba did come back to live with him in New York after he officially divorced Patrice in 1946.) Nevertheless, considering the amount of matching detail above—with the proviso that I can see no way of getting "Hahr'rena" out of "Gertrude Neisen", unless it was based upon either a nickname or a stage name—I am quite willing to entertain the possibility that DD has deliberately placed Runyon in LA when he shouldn't be there (and possibly performed even more bizarre surgery on the timeline) as a clue that something isn't right, time-wise—or even that his presence there is somehow part of the puzzle. (He's still alive in July—as Peter reported above, the Julian Date given in chapter 2 places us on July 21st, 1946—since doesn't die until December. But he's not doing too well at the time, and "was too weak to carry out much more than newspaper work" in 1946.) Or we could, to quote Tui, just put it down to Timeline Shenanigans (TM).

The latter may well be the case, as Runyon did indeed write various things for MGM—"three or four paragraphs" of story and then "further work on a 'treatment'" for an Eddie Cantor vehicle and "an original plot, dialogue, and advice on characters"†, though by no means the screenplay itself, for Joe and Ethel Turp Call on the President. However, both of these are far too early, being in 1936 and 1939, respectively, and I can't find any later ones. If we ignore the date, the latter might be the one alluded to here, as it was based upon a "one-page story" Runyon had written for "Hearst's Pictorial Weekly Sunday supplement". But, to compound the problems with the given Julian Date, his acquiring Sheba and separating from his second wife, we run into the fact that his operation took place in 1945. The dating of the MGM backlot fire (which is presumably an historical occurrence, and even one that rings a few faint bells with me) could help us decypher exactly how out of order the timeline is, but I can't find any reference to it.

Remarking on two of Peter's comments:

I don't think that Aufwi actually takes the gate through itself when he "takes it with him", just that he transits through it, while simultaneously having it move to his point of egress. However, I actually wonder whether it might be (somewhat) safer (though still perhaps not recommended or routine) to take a patent gate through itself than to take one patent gate through another, simply because you're presumably just reorienting some wormhole structure in the first case, instead of taking one such structure (already connecting two points of spacetime on its own) through another, though even the former does still seem rather drastic.

Also, I must be missing something, but I'm not at all sure what you mean by "Rhiow's assumption about Helen", so I would greatly appreciate it if you could clarify.

To nitpick a bit, in chapter 3, we have "Rhiow glanced down at the bark" after she and Urruah have already walked over to the parking space where Arhu has set up the transit circle. While it's possible that she's on some sort of pine bark mulch off to one side of the parking space, the passage is still rather disconcerting. I suspect, however, that it's simply an oversight—possibly something that needed to be changed when some passages got moved around.

Finally, thanks to Peter for figuring out the Duesenberg, Buran for supplying a picture and to Kathy for bringing the Blue Harvest in-joke to light—I would have never gotten those little tidbits without your help!

* This looks plausible, given Hwaith's description of the location, and a cursory look at a map of LA, but somebody (Kathy?) with an intimate knowledge of the area can, I'm sure, say something definitive.

† From Tom Clark's The World of Damon Runyon.

Edited to fix the footnote symbols. Does anyone have any idea as to why the HTML superscript tag wouldn't render here? I used it successfully in my post in the "the peridexis" thread, also in the spoiler forum.

Edited again to fix some typos and other infelicities.

[Peter Murray]

Interesting information about Damon Runyon. I suppose we'll have to wait and see if it's deliberate. (The possibility occurs to me that DD may have moved the story forward two years to avoid WW2 after researching Runyon. But that's just a wild guess.)

Originally posted by Nathan:
Also, I must be missing something, but I'm not at all sure what you mean by "Rhiow's assumption about Helen", so I would greatly appreciate it if you could clarify.

When they notice that Helen's no longer with them, Rhiow just says that she knows where to meet them, and generally assumes that Helen went somewhere of her own volition. Until we found out what happened to Helen (chapter 5, maybe?), I'm not as convinced.

It never even occurred to me to comment on the Blue Harvest in-joke; I just thought everyone would get it. Of course, as Return of the Jedi came out in 1983, most of the members here weren't even born, and certainly weren't reading articles about the filming process .

[Lazy Leopard]

...and until I read the posts above I'd never heard of Runyon. However, Chapter Five is now out (for subscribers, non-subscribers will have to wait a week) and the answer is within. A good twist or two as well. I was particularly tickled by the scene at the restaurant.

[Kathy Li]

Oh, lots of fun! Lots of exposition! Great stuff. I loved that I know that particular corner (Hollywood and Highland) very well, and could actually see the Chinese theatre forecourt in my head, dragons, lions, turrets and all.

And it is Damon Runyon! I wonder if he and the cats will bond over New York and Broadway. Thanks for digging up all the background info, Nathan. It's obvious now, in hindsight, what DD was aiming for, and it's still not out of the realms of possibility that she's going to have the cats bring him back to New York with them.

For those of you who have never read Damon Runyon, get thee to a library. Guys and Dolls, the musical, is but a pale imitation of the real thing. The voice is unmistakable, and also why I didn't pin the excerpt in TBM down as his, given that I'm so used to reading Runyon with a Brooklyn accent. A heavy one.

The only etext of his I've ever found on the web is "Dancing Dan's Christmas". I'd recommend finding the short story anthologies, Guys and Dolls or Blue Plate Special if you can. It's really amazing stuff. Absolutely cherce:

Naturally we start boosting hot Tom and Jerry to Dancing Dan, and he says he will take a crack at it with us, and after one crack, Dancing Dan says he will have another crack, and Merry Christmas to us with it, and the first thing anybody knows it is a couple of hours later and we still are still having cracks at the hot Tom and Jerry with Dancing Dan, and Dan says he never drinks anything so soothing in his life. In fact, Dancing Dan says he will recommend Tom and Jerry to everybody he knows, only he does not know anybody good enough for Tom and Jerry, except maybe Miss Muriel O'Neill, and she does not drink anything with drugstore rye in it.

[Lurker Underground]

Is chapter 6 available for subscribers yet? DD's blog said she would post it Dec. 18. I just subscribed and was sent instructions about how to access chapter 2! I tried writing to DD to ask about chapter 6 but no response yet.

[Kathy Li]

I posted: <span class="ev_code_GREY">Nope, it's not up yet. I just checked. DD sometimes announces dates, and then Life Happens and she gets pulled away to other higher-priority tasks. In this case, apparently, she has to reconstruct the chapter, so it's obviously going to take a little time.</span>

And, not three days later, DD makes a liar of me. Yay! Chapter Six is up for subscribers!! Same site, login, and password as for chapters 3-5. And glory be, it's a big one! 31 pages. Woot!!

[Hogosha]

Heh . . . reading Chapter 4 now and for a moment there I thought DD was getting into some Lovecraftian mythos! Too bad, no Cthulhu? ^_^
And I'll mention that it's not the first time DD has worked someone from real life into the Feline Wizards books. Remember Artie?

[Kathy Li]

Holy cow, DD does wodges of research! I wonder how many people don't realize that fantasy novels, even if you're making everything up, can still require research.

[Garrett Fitzgerald]

Originally posted by Buran:
This is a 1929 Duesenberg Phaeton. Very classy.

*lightbulb goes on* Oh, alright -- I've been going crazier than usual trying to figure out what that Ailurin transliteration meant. :-) Thanks for the picture...

Originally posted by Peter Murray:
When I finally remembered Damon Runyon's name, I thought it was him, based on his style. However, I think I've read one piece by him, and perhaps one parody of his style by Woody Allen.

What? You've never read Harry of Five Points?

[edited to consolidate double-post. --kli.]

[Peter Murray]

Yes, but that's still not actually by him. I wasn't sure when I wrote that whether I'd really read anything by Runyon, or just the Woody Allen parody. (And yes, ok, the Mike Ford parody too.)

But I have read the Dancing Dan's Christmas story that Kathy mentioned; in a Christmas anthology, I think.

[Kathy Li]

Originally posted by Garrett Fitzgerald:
What? You've never read Harry of Five Points?

Man, I laughed my guts out when Mike wrote that. You should see what he did with Guys & Dolls in "A Little Scene to Monarchize." He had Katherine of Valois singing a song to the tune of "Adelaide's Lament" with lyrics like "So, this Welshman and I/Are going to try/The dynastic thing..." Substituting a French accent for a Brooklyn.

In chat, I made a TBM prediction that was a no-brainer. Since she put the Original Tommy's on the research list, it was obvious someone's going to eat a tommyburger (a hamburger with mustard, pickle, tomato, cheese, and chili) at some point.

But here's another prediction (I hope): that our cats will be walking with Runyon down Broadway at one point or another. Cheesecake at Mindy's would be a plus, but I can't go that far...

[knieve]

Hay do you know when Chapter 7 will be out for non subscribers? I've tried to figure out when it would come out but i can not tell.