SYW Group Reading Discussion Thread

[alla]

So everyone has had a couple of weeks to read this, lets get it started

The first thing that jumped out at me in the prologue was the issue of the bullying. It is so instrumental in getting the storyline running, and then Joanne doesn't appear in any of the other books. I am also curious as to whether this type of bullying is still present in schools. I was subject to the 'walking encyclopedia/calculator/dictionary' jibes, but I was proud of them, most of the time. No-one that I know was beaten up on such a regular basis as what Nita seems to be. Maybe that's an Australian school thing though.

I also read something that I hadn't noticed before or it hadn't jumped out at me, was that Dairine has hair curlers with her. She's only 11 and she's curling her hair?

I would say that the story has stood the test of time pretty well though, with some, well, cute probably isn't the right word... interesting updates between editions, such as that from 'colour TV' to 'widescreen TV' in Joanne's speech at the end of the book.

I've been paying a little more attention to the way usage of the Speech is described this time around, partly from reading threads about the place regarding it, and partly because I have been reading and listening to other stories that describe magic in a similar manner, in that it needs structure. The one that jumps out of my mind at the moment is Garth Nix's 'Old Kingdom' trilogy (of which I have been listening to in audiobook format at work for the past couple of days). In it, the magic is described as needing certain marks (charter symbols) to be arranged in a certain manner in order for a spell to work. Although, an accurate description of an object isn't required in order to change it. I think that is part of what draws me to like the Young Wizards books more than any other YA series; that the wizardry that they deal with has such a strong basis in science, that it seems real; it seems like it could actually exsist in this world/universe.

[SpacePen]

bullying

The first thing that jumped out at me in the prologue was the issue of the bullying. It is so instrumental in getting the storyline running, and then Joanne doesn't appear in any of the other books. I am also curious as to whether this type of bullying is still present in schools. I was subject to the 'walking encyclopedia/calculator/dictionary' jibes, but I was proud of them, most of the time. No-one that I know was beaten up on such a regular basis as what Nita seems to be. Maybe that's an Australian school thing though.

Now that you draw attention to the bullying and Nita's habit of daily being beaten up when the book opens, it reminds me of a similar device at the beginning of other books: in particular L'Engle's Time Quartet. There you see a very similar setup with a protagonist (Meg and/or Charles Wallace) getting beaten up regularly while other siblings (Sandy and Dennys) seem to not have this kind of trouble at school at all. Of course L'Engle goes off in a different direction but it's interesting to note that both L'Engle's and Duane's ideas about where to go from there involve fantastic adventures where the battle between good and evil is cosmic (greater than the main characters) and yet the outcome of such a large battle still hinges on the choices of the very characters who can't seem to avoid or win a fight against their peers at school.

Can you think of other novels that share this trait (specifically of the main character being so often bullied, and having siblings who don't have the same problem)? It would be interesting to find how many stories starting with the same setup follow the same "type" of story arc.

As for whether or not this is realistic or just a literary device to get the story going, I think it depends entirely on the neighborhood you live in and on the administration and teachers at the school you attend. Children in groups are, it seems, naturally brutal towards one another - especially at a certain age. Perhaps its something of a mob mentality. I certainly didn't get physically beaten up but there was a period of time for about 6 or 8 months in the 7th grade when I felt verbally abused - verbally ganged up on - by my peers just about every day. If I had lived down the street from these people and not (thankfully!) a 20 minute drive away from my school, the very students who beat me up verbally may have tried the same physically.

[Stormwind]

I just purchased the audible file the other day and was listening to it, after having reread the book only two days before that. It was interesting to me that it was a similar issue that both Kit and Nita were trying to solve (being beaten up, or made fun of) that brought them together in the first place. I find it interesting that Kit gets stalled when he's trying to do the power spell, and Nita is the answer to his problem. Then Fred is the answer to the combined problem, and that full circle, they are the answer to the BONWM having dissappeared, and the ultimate Bully seeking to thwart the good again.
One other thing that I noticed as I was listening to SYWTBAW, was that they talk about "ingredients" needed to make the spells work, yet as you go on in the series, the "ingredients" seem to become more a matter of will than a physical catalyst to set off the wizardry. Sure you still have some physical objects that carry wizardy, but you don't seem to need the strange objects (i.e. 8 1/2 sugar cubes, a silver fork, etc.) to make the wizardry work. I could be wrong on that, but it seems to me that as the wizard grows, their ability to affect magic with will alone grows.....

[SpacePen]

ultimate bully

Never thought of the Lone Power as the "ultimate bully" but I suppose that's what it is, especially in the first book.

And you're right about the things needed for the first spells in this book that seem to be catalysts for the speech to "spell" properly become less needed as the series goes on. Or, rather, physical objects seem to enhance and magnify certain aspects of power but are not necessary objects for wizardry. The objects they carry around later are as often as not made out of the Speech itself. Perhaps at the start, someone who knows very little of the Speech and probably uses it in grammatically "incorrect" ways when making it up on the fly needs pre-made objects and pre-designed speech formulas to make a spell, but once they are more fluent, they can work it the other way and start to make what physical objects they need out of a spell, and even make objects they need for another spell out of the Speech, and roll their own spells entirely new.

Or maybe the sugar cubes and the silver fork, once found, just sit comfortably forgotten in the bottom of the otherspace "pockets" till needed (like the hairbrush and the breath mints and the mini-umbrella and the small music journal that lie in peace at the bottom of my purse till one day it rains or my hair gets blown into a tangle or I want a mint or I get a wild idea for a new hit off-broadway musical that I just have to compose the theme song for RIGHT NOW.

[Stormwind]

Prologue

I know that my reaction would have been similar to Nita's if I'd been presented with this book that asked if I wanted to be a Wizard... I would have thought it a cute fiction idea to entertain kids, and not something that could ultimately change peoples lives. If you think about it, the old saying of the Pen is mightier than the sword are true. Words can have a longer lasting effect on everything that happens in a day, than if the person was cut with a blade.
"A wizard's business is to conserve energy - to keep it from being wasted." pg 15 in the Prologue. A simple word or phrase can save someone from having to use too much energy to do a task that only takes an explanation to make it simple. It also takes something as simple as faith to make a task achievable. Nita decided to take the Oath, thinking that the worst it would do was just be wasting her breath, and the best was that she might have the potential to do something good. (All right, it was to get her pen back and possibly not get beaten anymore that enticed her as well, but her nature won out too)

One of the points that I did see in this book is the fact that everyone seems to have something that they specialize in, and that it ties to the things around them. Nita's got the knack with plants and living things, and Kit has it with metals and non-living.

[alla]

My reaction when I first read it (waay back when I was 12) was 'I hope this is real, because that would be awesome', especially when I got to the description of a potential wizard. It fit me to a T at the time . Now, however, my brain works in different ways, and while it would be an awesome universe to live in, I have to admit to myself that it is only fantasy

The ingredients are still present in later books - remember the gimbal that Nita has in AWAb? Perhaps different kinds of spells require more or less objects, or once a wizard is really familiar with the spell, they may not need as many? E.g. I can't recall (and I may be wrong) if they ever needed anything for the 'beam me up scotty' spell, or the walking on water one. Maybe if there is a tangible thing to convince, then skill in the Speech may be used, rather than needing a catalyst?

[Silverclaw]

About the bullying, the verbal part (like what happens to Kit,) definitely happens. I still have to deal with "nerd" taunts all the time. Kids at my school literally think I'm some sort of freak, just cause I love to read. I have no idea what they'd do it someone found this site. Trust me, getting picked on any way isn't fun. I'm not sure about the getting beaten up, it's never happened to me or any of my friends(probably cause we're all good fighters), but it might happen to other kids.

[illiriam]

I loved this book, because I could really relate to Nita. I was definitely the nerdy type, with glasses and my hair always up in a ponytail, and two books at all times, just in case I finished one while I was at school. I got teased mildly, never anything too serious, and I think I had established myself as tough enough that I never got bothered physically. I was never one for allowing myself to get pushed without pushing back. However, my family still teases me for reading so much. My little brother is always, and I do mean always, on the computer playing WoW and Runescape and Silkroad and the like, and tries to get me irritated by mocking my while I am reading, especially when I laugh out loud to a part. I just remind him what grades I get, as compared to the grades he gets, and that usually shuts him up.
I also remember thinking that I fit the mold for a potential wizard when I first read it and just wishing "I wish this were real!"
Maybe the bullying was more of a problem in the 80's. I mean, it happens, and nowadays we have pamphlets handed out about what constitutes bullying (physical and verbal), and where to go if you are being bullied. Teachers are more prepared to deal with it if it happens before, during, or after school. Nita lived in New York (granted in a suburb) and things could have been rougher there. It happens.
As for the ingredients, I had thought about the lack of them in later books when I recently reread SYWTBAW. I know that the gimbal was used because certain objects bent the space around them in such a way that they were useful for the spell (is that right?) but it seemed to me more like the rowan wand; more a booster for the energy than an ingredient. I hadn't thought that their proficiency with the Speech could have something to do with it, but that does makes some sense. I had a theory, and I can't remember if it was anywhere in the books or if I just assumed it. It was basically that most spells that required ingredients only required them the first time, and after that the wizard was aware enough of the spell and its requirements to perform it with the Speech and will alone.

[alla]

Does anyone want to try and start up these reading groups again? Didn't really take off last year, but if we read quickly, we should be able to get all or most of them in before AWoM comes out. There's approximately 13 weeks before the release date of AWoM, so if we start discussing next week, we have a bit over a week's worth of discussion on each book before starting on the next one. Or we could skip over a couple of the books if people wanted to.

[SilveredBlue]

Ooh, yes, yes, yes! I love group readings! Where should we set it up- at the old SYWTBAW group, or on the forum so that the participants are reminded?

*this is not a one liner*

[Tuttle]

I will definitely join in to those which I have my books in my apartment. Last time I was working on the whole graduating thing and still wanted to participate. Now to get my parents to bring the rest here, or wait for High Wizardry, 'cause that one I have here already.

[Tobiasscrabble]

think

It would be lovely and also I can relate to nita on the being beaten up alot it doesn't happen now because I'm tall but the insults really hurt and like Nita about the book reading but they now think that it is normal about me ha my friend knows about this place but is hesitant to join

[SilveredBlue]

So when are we actually going to start????

Does a chapter + discussion a week sound good? Or should it be shorter? Longer? Hmm, if I knew how many chapters there were total I could figure this out.

[alla]

The idea would be a book and a discussion every week and a half or so - that way we get all of the books done before AWoM comes out. Suggested discussion starting dates could be:

SYWTBAW: 17th January
DW: 27th January
HW: 6th Feb
AWAb: 16th Feb
AWD: 26th Feb
AWAl: 8th March
AWH: 18th March
W@W: 28th March

Which should give plenty of time to then start speculating on AWoM. You don't have to join into every book, just as you can. And discussions can overlap with each other, too. What do people think?

[SilveredBlue]

Yay! That's perfect. Let's make a new thread for each book discussion then, so that people can selectively join in without becoming totally confused. I wonder if there's a way to put that on the forum calender? We'd probably have to ask the admins to do it.