Can entropy be reversed?

[EricG1793]

For years, based off of context in what was being written on the forum, I thought that entropy was simply a generic term for things wearing down.

In my high school Physics class, I believe, I learned that entropy is when usable energy is made unusable. For a made-up-on-the-spot-that-might-not-be-correct example, you have an engine with so much gasoline. The engine burns the gasoline and there is no longer any usable energy; heat and gasses such as CO2 are released and these are not combustible. Also, creating friction will lead to the degradation of material and create heat, for example, the brakes in a car. The pad creates a resistance (friction) to the spinning rotor, and heat and dust are released. I have a sort of fear of things scraping... my rolly chair's wheels on the hard floor, cutting metal with metal, etc. Even the joints in my body.

So I guess entropy can't be reversed....

[SpacePen]

I found these two articles interesting and immediately thought of YW as an appropriate place to post.... So I went looking for an entropy thread since I figured there HAD to be one already. And here it is, so...

What is Entropy? | Entropy - Facts & Information | LifesLittleMysteries.com

And

Ramanujan's Mock Modular Forms: Indian Mathematician's Dream Conjecture Finally Proven "...The expansion of mock modular forms helps physicists compute the entropy, or level of disorder, of black holes..."


And I hope this isn't too far off topic of the OP question!

[Azule]

Well if you look at the second law of thermodynamics which DD mentions several times entropy can be reversed temporarily but it is harder and requires more energy than promoting entropy e.g. it is simpler to add milk and sugar to coffee than to seperate coffee cream and sugar from each other.

[LifeSong]

"There is yet insufficient data . .. " Interesting.

It's not so much like Spot's situation in WaW, where he can't figure out the encrypted data; our problem is that we don't have the data. Maybe the universe doesn't contain the data? There's a gap in the programming, and someone needs to write it in... Wow, that's so odd that I can barely understand it.

[Septimus]

I think that entropy can be slowed down, or even changed in the way that it effects someone, but as for being reversed, well, immortality could make anyone miserable, if you're alone of course. Entropy can allow a life to enter another stage of what we call LIFE. It leads to Timeheart, and in itself Timeheart wouldn't be such a terrible place to end up.

No your right about all of that... But would immortality really be that bad??? any mistake you made could be fixed. I think immortality would be cool if you could choose lets say to end it, or to quit when you feel like it... Does this make any sense at all???

[Wiccangixie]

I think that entropy can be slowed down, or even changed in the way that it effects someone, but as for being reversed, well, immortality could make anyone miserable, if you're alone of course. Entropy can allow a life to enter another stage of what we call LIFE. It leads to Timeheart, and in itself Timeheart wouldn't be such a terrible place to end up.

[Dragon Writer]

*nods* I'm not sure many people would be happy with that, bored or not...I mean, i don't care how much you know, destroying yourself and everyone you love isn't something most people will just wake up in the morning and do.
Every instinct we have screams against it. (Though perhaps it would be a good thing anyways)

[vashmata]

Yes, I guess it's what you're saying young reader. Actually, I just remembered that a really crazy idea I had afterwards was that in the future we actually cause it to become compact again once we get the technology, because we have already learnt all there is to learn.

[Dragon Writer]

Multiple big bang theory sounds kind of like what you're saying, Vashmata. Or i might be completely misunderstanding it, but the way i see it is that the universe goes through big bangs again, and again, starting all over.
Which means it collapses on itself (back into that one atom you were talking about) over and over...Though maybe an atom is not quite the right word.
More like a highly compacted ball of matter that's going to explode outward to create the universe, or something like that,

[Rhi]

If entropy is energy becoming disorganized (usually as heat), then its reversal would be the organization of energy. I really have no idea how one would go about doing that Energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred or transformed, so the organization would have to take place in the transfer or transformation. I still don't see how that could happen....yeah, I'm not going to even try to break the 2nd law of thermodynamics

[vashmata]

I also disagree with Eric. Not only will you lose energy, you won't regain the floor by using sandpaper, you'll destroy it even more.

I've actually come up with an interesting theory about everything. It also kind of says that instead of entropy being reversed, it just restarts from scratch (I came up with this while daydreaming in my Science class).
So here it is:
We've all heard bout the big bang, how massive amounts of energy were released, and they slowly reconverted into matter, and then the universe was formed (e=mc^2). Well, if we combine the theory that time is an endless loop (watch Bill and Ted's Excelent Adventure-it's a hard theory for me to explain: basically, if you have a time machine and you go back in time and see a message telling you what to do, be sure to go farther behind and put it there, or the loop will become unstable and you would have never gotten the message, changing everything), we can say that at the end of time, the whole universe (and everything else I guess) will be converted back into an atom, and then exact same thing will happen over and over again (of course, I only thought about it in this much detail when I got home).

So you see, it won't be reversed - rather, it will restart - according to my theory.

[EricG1793]

You're right, Alla, my example with the wood floor probably wasn't the best one. I agree. At the moment, I don't have the opportunity to make up another example, but I will as soon as I can.

[Tuttle]

Even without understanding the reference completely that is amusing, though some description might have been nice *shrug*.

The reference to the big three with the death of Arthur C. Clarke does make sense though.

Originally posted by young reader:

I suppose given enough time, even Entropy could be reversed. (key word is suppose)

I'd be impressed if you could break thermodynamics. I'd really like to see a (true) perpetual motion machine.

This thread has really reminded me how little people realize what entropy is in our world. What entropy is is a measure of disorder or randomness. Because reversing a measurement does not make sense I'm assuming what 'reversing' would be is entropy decreasing.

This brings me to the second law of theromodynamics - which say that (in a closed system) entropy cannot be decreased. Similarly, entropy not only cannot be decreased, but cannot stay the same.

To put it in other terms:
You cannot win
You cannot break even
you cannot leave the game


Even with magic, there are still the laws of this world.

If anyone can break these and create a perpetual motion machine, please show us.

[Kathy Li]

Ok, time-out's over. You can come out from the corner, now, Garrett!

Yes, but everybody remember I'm the only one (well, ok, DD and Lee can, too) who gets to !@#$% out Garrett! It's one of the very few privileges and pleasures you enjoy when you become an admin.

When YOU become a mod, then you can netiquette nitpick. But until then, just try to make sure everybody's having fun and that this is a pleasant place. Really, do you want to be seen as someone who continually harps on the rules at everyone?

As for entropy reversal--(wistfully)--it would be nice, wouldn't it?

[Dragon Writer]

....Well, that was an interesting response..*Grins*

I suppose given enough time, even Entropy could be reversed. (key word is suppose)