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"Dai stiheh": plural forms of the greeting?

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  • "Dai stiheh": plural forms of the greeting?

    I don't want this to sound too geeky and obsessive, so let me say first that I've had an interest in invented languages for a while now.

    So. In AWD, when Nita meets Pont for the first time, Pont says "Dai stiheh!" The obvious reason for the change from the usual "dai stiho" is that Pont thinks Nita is plural, like themselves. (Argh, pronouns for Pont get very confusing...) Several Terran languages (Latin, for one) have different verb forms for singular and plural imperative sentences.

    But just a page or two later, Nita passes *two* wizards and says "Dai stiho" to them. Aaaah! Probably just a mistake, although there are some plausible explanations you could suggest: the change doesn't mark plurality at all, but something Earth languages probably don't even have a name for; the phrase is so common Nita's just used to the singular version; the change does mark plurality, but it's the speaker's plurality, not the addressee's (seems odd, but after all, the idea of a plural speaker isn't going to come up much in human languages)...

    Nevertheless, from these two examples you can draw a few very tentative conclusions about the Speech:

    -dai is probably the adverb ("well") and stih- is the verb root ("go") (Could've figured this out before, actually, since it's not very likely that people would go around saying "Go!" as a casual hello/goodbye...)

    -Modifiers (adjectives and adverbs, mostly) tend to come before the words they modify - a "head-final language" in linguistics geek terms. (But remember many human languages are very inconsistent about this.)

    -Plurality (or maybe some other element) is marked by suffixes added onto the end of the verb root.

    Heh. I love this stuff. Dai stiheh, all!

  • #2
    I don't want this to sound too geeky and obsessive, so let me say first that I've had an interest in invented languages for a while now.

    So. In AWD, when Nita meets Pont for the first time, Pont says "Dai stiheh!" The obvious reason for the change from the usual "dai stiho" is that Pont thinks Nita is plural, like themselves. (Argh, pronouns for Pont get very confusing...) Several Terran languages (Latin, for one) have different verb forms for singular and plural imperative sentences.

    But just a page or two later, Nita passes *two* wizards and says "Dai stiho" to them. Aaaah! Probably just a mistake, although there are some plausible explanations you could suggest: the change doesn't mark plurality at all, but something Earth languages probably don't even have a name for; the phrase is so common Nita's just used to the singular version; the change does mark plurality, but it's the speaker's plurality, not the addressee's (seems odd, but after all, the idea of a plural speaker isn't going to come up much in human languages)...

    Nevertheless, from these two examples you can draw a few very tentative conclusions about the Speech:

    -dai is probably the adverb ("well") and stih- is the verb root ("go") (Could've figured this out before, actually, since it's not very likely that people would go around saying "Go!" as a casual hello/goodbye...)

    -Modifiers (adjectives and adverbs, mostly) tend to come before the words they modify - a "head-final language" in linguistics geek terms. (But remember many human languages are very inconsistent about this.)

    -Plurality (or maybe some other element) is marked by suffixes added onto the end of the verb root.

    Heh. I love this stuff. Dai stiheh, all!

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't want to hurt your feeling, Penelope, so please don't take this the wrong way, but you're scaring me.

      NEWay, I took Dai stiheh as indicating Pont's plurarality, like changing the end of a verb in French for 'nous' (but different), or possibly as a dialect difference. I have no idea.

      AML,
      A Moonlighting X-Phile
      <If all good things must come to an end - than numbers are not our friend!>
      <WARNING: I cannot be help responsible for the above, as apparently my cats have learned how to type.>
      <'Men will fight bravely and be heroes, but for a last ditch defense against any odds, get a mother.' You should recognize that one!>
      And as I sit and talk to you, I see your face go white
      This shadow hanging over me is no trick of the light
      This spectre on my back shall soon be free
      The dead have come to claim a debt from thee
      --The Pogues--

      Comment


      • #4
        omg! another language geek. yay! *dances* ..I was wondering about the stiho/stiheh thing, but was too buisy reading at that time to ponder much let me tell my argument-starting ideas...
        it's not very likely that people would go around saying "Go!" as a casual hello/goodbye...)
        well, in English, the shortened form of "good-bye" is "'bye" not "good"... "well" seems like as strange of a greeting as "good" does... I think you're right, tho.

        Modifiers...tend to come before the words they modify...(But remember many human languages are very inconsistent about this.)
        many humanlanguages, you say, but the Speech is not *strictly* a human language

        argh... my 'puter is beeping at me - I'll post this before it blows...

        Comment


        • #5
          while you guys are all OBSESSING about plurals might u have even thoought that it could have been a regional dialect they are from different galaxies you kno

          Dai Stiho,
          Dan
          Dai Stiho,
          Dan

          Comment


          • #6
            I have, and it could be, but I very much doubt it. The cats in TBoNWM say "dai stiho" spelled just as it is in the YW books, and if it's not spelled differently for cats, who obviously have a very different vocal apparatus than humans, I don't know why it would be for any other creatures. Besides, I don't know that the Speech strikes me as the kind of thing that would have regional dialects, although it certainly would have to come with different pronunciations for different species. (Heck, there are probably some versions that don't use sound or writing at all - but I'd guess the *grammar* would probably be the same.)

            Comment


            • #7
              Interesting question on dialects--particularly as the Speech does have accents. Does one's accent affect one's power or accuracy, given that it's a matter of pronunciation?

              Inside every cynic there's an idealist desperately yearning to be let out, and when they are let out they're usually a real pain and cause all sorts of trouble. --Chris Boucher

              Comment


              • #8
                i could be wrong about this but i believe nita was studdiyng regional dialacts in awal

                Dai Stiho,
                Dan
                Dai Stiho,
                Dan

                Comment


                • #9
                  She wasn't exactly doing regional dialects, though they are mentioned. She was working more with different recensions, like "...research on the contextual variations of the Speech--in noun paradeclensions, and judicial imperatives, and the history and use of the Enactive Recension." (p. 176, AWAl)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ah! Ah! Alone spoilers! Stay away from me! Add some spoiler space, do something!!!

                    Yours till the bed spreads,
                    Rowen Avalon
                    mysites/ravensiggys/constitutionality
                    Rowen Avalon

                    "I told you she was going to turn you into a soggy beermat. No one ever listens to me." - Jonny, AWAb (My fav moment!)
                    "IB helps you with stress management. It throws all this stress at you and says, 'Manage it!' Then you have your b

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You don't have Alone yet???? But you live in the States! (Don't you? Or is Salt Lake City somewhere else...) I mean, I didn't get it for a while, but I've had it for months, and I live in NEW ZEALAND, for pete's sake!!!!!
                      Excuse the exclamation marks, I'm suffering from extreme sympathetic horror. I hope you get hold of it soon!!
                      Ka Kite
                      Tui

                      Tuibird in Aotearoa
                      Conservationist, Scientist, and proud of both!
                      Chocolate lover extraordinaire...
                      *sob* back to school....*sob*
                      My mission: Bringing Maori to the world!
                      Go ahead! Panic! Do it now and avoid the June rush! Fear death by water!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Two problems contribute to my current Alone-less state:

                        1. All the YW books I have are paperback, so I must get the matching paperback of Alone which is not yet available. Besides, the bookstore near me is out of the hardcover.

                        2. Due to some ordering issues, my library doesn't have a copy either!

                        I'm going crazy to read it and I know others who haven't. Thus could we contain the Alone spoilers a little bit?

                        And yes, Salt Lake is in the US. Think Olympics.

                        Yours till the bed spreads,
                        Rowen Avalon
                        mysites/ravensiggys/constitutionality
                        Rowen Avalon

                        "I told you she was going to turn you into a soggy beermat. No one ever listens to me." - Jonny, AWAb (My fav moment!)
                        "IB helps you with stress management. It throws all this stress at you and says, 'Manage it!' Then you have your b

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          ...think lack of geography... think terrible shame... think I really must take a look at our atlas sometime soon...
                          Ka kite
                          tui

                          Tuibird in Aotearoa
                          Conservationist, Scientist, and proud of both!
                          Chocolate lover extraordinaire...
                          Daily Blonde Moment:
                          So my sister comes up to me the other day and says, "Can I show you a picture of London? That's the Empire State Building..."
                          My mission: Bringing Maori to the world!
                          Go ahead! Panic! Do it now and avoid the June rush! Fear death by water!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Dai probably means well but I don't think stih means go it probably means met. Having the phrase be Well Met Cousin, sinc it is always "Dia Stiho, Cousin".

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                            • #15
                              RPG
                              ***
                              Avid Stealer of Left Shoes
                              Co-creator/GM of the Númeârador RPG

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