Dangers of the Speech

[Caledonian]

In a sense, the Speech is like the operating system of the universe(s). What wizards do can be compared to temporarily rewriting code, changing the nature of reality. While the potential danger of any tool is roughly equal to its usefulness, and the Speech is a very useful tool, there seem to be certain limitations and safety measures built in.

However, what's wizardry's equivalent of hacking? We've seen what happens when a wizard gives him/herself over to the Lone Power, but never really an example of wizardry gone bad.

What happens if you hack reality with the Speech?

Logic is a poor servant, but an excellent master.
-- The Book of Forgotten Things

[Lady Yunalesca]

Bad things, I'm assuming. ^_^

*~*~*~*~*~*
"Poor creature. You would throw away hope... Well... I will free you before you can drown in your sorrow. It is better for you to die in hope than to live in despair...Let me be your liberator!"
~ Lady Yunalesca, Final Fantasy X

[EWizard11]

A spell always works. How can you mangle it? That's what I'm asking.

EWizard11

[Virgo Fenwick]

I read somewhere that serious hackers only hack to prove they can... they like to steal expensive programs, rewrite them slightly, and give them to the people for free, stuff like that. So, in that sense, hacking reality would be what Ponch was doing... copying reality for the average user.

Dangerous hackers, though... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

EWizard, the problem is that spells always work. Not matter what they put together, something will always occur. There have been scenes in the books where their spells have had unexpected consequences... but imagine someone with malicious intent, someone putting a spell together to hurt someone innocent...

Though, those sort of hacks wouldn't be too successful, if you think about it. Someone would always remember a different sort of reality... sort of like user logs?

However, there have been suggestions that those sort of people don't exist... only certain people are offered wizardry, and something about serving the powers that I don't quite remember at the moment...

Through every rift of discovery some seeming anomaly drops out of the darkness, and falls, as a golden link into the great chain of order. -- Edwin Hubbel Chapin

[Caledonian]

The Powers don't offer wizardry to those most likely to misuse it, and can revoke it if necessary.

However, the Lone Power is one of the Powers, too. Because of His nature, it would seem difficult if not impossible for Him to have partners (which is of course the point), but I see no reason why He couldn't grant power to a corrupted wizard, or a moral willing to assist Him in His work.

Logic is a poor servant, but an excellent master.
-- The Book of Forgotten Things

[Virgo Fenwick]

So, what you're saying is that if Nita's manual is a derivitive of the good Book, then someone who is a wizard under the Lone One would have a manual that was taken from the bad Book?

The question with this senario would be this: Who is the Power who dictates who gets offered wizardy?

Through every rift of discovery some seeming anomaly drops out of the darkness, and falls, as a golden link into the great chain of order. -- Edwin Hubbel Chapin

[WizardGirl1]

The thing is no one decides who gets to be a wiard and who doesn't. It's just if you have the power. Nita is related to the first mayor of New York,and her Dad got skipped in the wizardry, because he wasn't born with the power.
By the way, don't listen to me much, I don't make much sense. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[Caledonian]

...although the personality traits that wizards tend to have are, well, personal: they're not granted, they're either inherent to the person or acquired from the environment.

Logic is a poor servant, but an excellent master.
-- The Book of Forgotten Things

[danman3322]

what would happen if there was just 1 word wrong in a wizardry? whould it just go haywire? or would it change the effect of the wizardry? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

Dai Stiho,
Dan

Originally posted by Vendalin, Lord Raven:

Or conversely, he could be good but despairing, a "Let it all just end and the sooner the better" type.

Of course...
That is what I am. Or have been. But I am not a wizard. And that's probably why. ^_^

[Virgo Fenwick]

Originally posted by danman3322:
what would happen if there was just 1 word wrong in a wizardry? whould it just go haywire? or would it change the effect of the wizardry? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]

Both... depending on how you look at it. The effect of the wizardry would change because Wizardy always works. And depending on what you're trying to do, that could cause a chain reaction in the situation, causing mayhem where you don't want it to be.

Through every rift of discovery some seeming anomaly drops out of the darkness, and falls, as a golden link into the great chain of order. -- Edwin Hubbel Chapin

[Lady Yunalesca]

I'm guessing that what the Lone One did to create the alternate New York in the first book is a form of the Speech used to do bad things... That's just my guess.

if you asked me to

[Rice]

We shouldn't forget that with some larger wizardries there is an ethical substructure (I refer specifically to the "go/no go knot" refered to in "Dilemma"). So if you try to use some wizardries (and possibly all of them, we don't know enough about structure) for evil, they simply won't work...because intent is built _into_ the spell.

Also, deciding to shred the nervous system of passers-by, for example, is not something you decide at the drop of a hat. It's usually a slow decision...so that by the time you are ready to act, you are not the same person who took the oath and, well "Wizardry does not live in the unwilling heart." It's more than the power, it's the intent. If the intent to do good isn't there, then the power won't be either.

Of course, there's always the chance of a deranged wizard suddenly running amok. I don't know exactly how quickly TPTB would strip such a danger of their power, but one assumes that would only occur for important narrative purposes.

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit."

Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost.

Originally posted by Rice:
We shouldn't forget that with some larger wizardries there is an ethical substructure (I refer specifically to the "go/no go knot" refered to in "Dilemma"). So if you try to use some wizardries (and possibly all of them, we don't know enough about structure) for evil, they simply won't work...because intent is built _into_ the spell.

There must be some way around that or the Lone Power would be hardly a danger at all. He would be corrupting wizards, disabling them individually, but as soon as he did they would all cease to be wizards, and not be useful any fuirther.
He must have some Speech-using allies, or most wizards would be successful in their task and he and his cause, i.e. Entropy, would constantly be losing.

Ok, admittedly in all the books they ARE constantly losing, but that doesn't seem to axiomatic.

Deranged also needs to be placed in context. If the Lone Power convinces a wizard that he is right and the final death should come soon, would the wizard lose his wizardry? Isn't the Lone Power a Power also?

There is no other wisdom, and no other hope for us, but that we grow wise
- Surak of Vulcan