Wellakh and Social Structure (In A Forest of Teal Deer)

[LifeSong]

As to their stagation: I think Dairine could be a good thing for them, in that department. They've become so closed in, so classist, and Dairine knocking over some walls in Wellakh's ruler's mind could be a good thing. (Dairine had to be brought up- this is in the
Ships department. )

I agree completely, and would love to watch how that would play out! xD

glad to see I'm not the only one interested in figuring out what the heck is going on on that planet. It just seems so...complicated and developed, compared to most of the other planets we have seen in the YW universe.

Absolutely I love that planet. A lot of the time when I read Wizard's Holiday/Wizards At War/AWoM, I just go back and re-read the parts on Wellakh.

I know nothing about sociology, but what is the possibility of an all-out rebellion against the royalty? There's definitely a whole lot of tension there anyway, the only thing that's keeping most of the public in check is the fact that the royal line is made up of wizards, right? What if something happened? Sorry if I'm being really vague, I'm not sure how to phrase my question :/

[Frivs]

Firstly, you are awesome. Thank you for feeding my obsession.

I posted some of this in another topic, but I'll try to post it more clearly here xD

I think the way in which Roshaun behaves speaks volumes about the government and political situation. Roshaun is very good at etiquette and using the correct "lines" (think when he meets Tom and Carl for the first time), but he doesn't seem to have many social skills, especially not with his peers. Dairine also talks about how his face is constantly blank, as if he's wearing a "mask", and that every once in a while he lets this slip only for a moment (notably when he talks about his planet's history, and when he's about to puke on the Motherboard xD). To me this would show that Roshaun has 1) grown up with everyone wanting to be his friend because of his rank -- he has never had to HAVE social skills, because he has never had to "make" friends, and 2) been living in an extremely politically charged environment, and therefore must be very careful about what he allows others to see. You can see that he is not just a cold-hearted person by those few times when he does allow himself to relax (ie, wearing the floppy t-shirt, or squeezing Dairine's hand, or worrying over how he has endangered his father). Though he portrays an image of total self-control and a "you are so beneath me" attitude, once Dairine begins getting inside his head, we see that there's a constant stream of self-doubt and self-criticism.

This also leads me to believe that not all is sunny amid the royal families (of which I believe DD said there are 3 in one of her chats). Roshaun doesn't just keep the "mask" among important people, he wears it ALL the time. Taking into consideration the separation of the royal family from every day people, you have to assume then that this mask is used with his fellow wizards/royals as well. And if he's having to watch what he says/shows among the families, there must be some variation in political viewpoints.

Because of the above, I would assume that if there is a council of advisors (which, as was mentioned, he has to have some sort of advisement to run a planet), they come from the noble/royal (can't decide which to use lol) families. This would also explain why changes in politics/leadership result in this mass gathering of people outside of the royal palace. If they had their own representatives to go to, why would they gather outside the palace like that? I wouldn't think though that this council(?) has any sort of direct political power, since both Roshaun and Nelaid repeatedly refer to "what the son of the sun says is law", which doesn't seem to leave any room for "unless the council takes a vote" xD There again though, given Roshaun's behavior it may be safe to assume that what this council DOES have is indirect political power -- you do something we don't like, we may just hire an assassin and move on to the next guarantor.

I have so much more in meh head, but homework calls. This is a wonderful conversation though, glad to see I'm not the only one interested in figuring out what the heck is going on on that planet. It just seems so...complicated and developed, compared to most of the other planets we have seen in the YW universe. I believe the only one we knew more about was the one Nita and Kit visited in WH. Considering there have never been any extended scenes or plots taking place on Wellkah, we know a good deal about it, and I don't know why DD would spend this much time developing it if it was not intended to play a purpose.

[InkSlinger]

It is very possible that new cultural viewpoints haven't been introduced to Wellakh for awhile, especially considering their culture of isolation and their attitude towards aliens. I'm not entirely convinced that the social expectations are quite so unyielding, however. The social expectations on Roshaun are very unyielding, but as a public figure and as a leader, I'd say that social expectations would be more unyielding than on him than say, an average Wellakhit worker.

Which does not mean that Wellakh doesn't have its own rigid social customs (it probably does), just that the average person is probably not so insufferably formal as Roshaun happens to act.

... Unless you were basing that on something else, and I am just misreading you. In which case, enlighten me!

I was basing it loosely on Roshaun, and I realize he's under more strictures than the average Wellakhit probably is, but typically rulers are like their people only more so- at least, that has been my observation. So while he may be more strictly hemmed in, I think their society is also.

As to their stagation: I think Dairine could be a good thing for them, in that department. They've become so closed in, so classist, and Dairine knocking over some walls in Wellakh's ruler's mind could be a good thing. (Dairine had to be brought up- this is in the
Ships department. )

I've gotta say- having two sociologists in here does make me feel a bit intimidated! But that won't keep me from contributing to this fascinating conversation.

[araine]

(Everyone in this thread is so awesome. I eyehearts you all.)

I like this exploration into alien culture, and I strongly approve of the lack of assumptions. Mad props, everyone!

I suppose we strive to be as scientific as possible with our scifi-fantasy literature. (Oh, the paradox!) Thank you for the compliment!

it certainly is in line with monarchies (not to mention governments), which typically try to control all power.

I suppose this brings in the idea of, well, how much power does Wellakh's monarchy have? And how much do they try to keep it for themselves?

I could easily see the Guarantors as afraid of losing power, because, with a population that is already occasionally unfavorable against them, power is the only bargaining chip they have. (i.e, without the power dynamic, we have the French Revolution or whatever Wellakh's equivalent is, and the entire family is wiped off the board. Depending on how charged the political climate actually is, it could end up with worse consequences than just that.)

Of course, they are also wizards who are sworn to Life, and (at least to all appearances) as concerned as possible about the welfare of the people. If they were to "adopt" all wizards into the family, would that be because of the power imbalance and in order to keep the status quo?

All in all, Wellakh is certainly in danger of stagnation, because new people and ways of thinking do not occur often. That, perhaps, explains the unyielding social expectations and behavioral limitations of its people.

It is very possible that new cultural viewpoints haven't been introduced to Wellakh for awhile, especially considering their culture of isolation and their attitude towards aliens. I'm not entirely convinced that the social expectations are quite so unyielding, however. The social expectations on Roshaun are very unyielding, but as a public figure and as a leader, I'd say that social expectations would be more unyielding than on him than say, an average Wellakhit worker.

Which does not mean that Wellakh doesn't have its own rigid social customs (it probably does), just that the average person is probably not so insufferably formal as Roshaun happens to act.

... Unless you were basing that on something else, and I am just misreading you. In which case, enlighten me!

2) I didn't think that anyone else on here was crazy enough to torment themselves with sociology. Haha. I am a soc major, and hope to do my graduate studies in anthropology.

Some of this also applies in an anthropological point of view. The two are entwined since anthropology concerns the culture of a society, whereas sociology looks at the structure that supports society.

Haha, sociology is only unofficially my minor, and I've been trying to make this as accessible as possible to the non-soc-major, so you'll forgive all of the layman's terms, won't you?

An anthropological point of view absolutely applies, and I would love to speculate on such matters, because I'm sure that, being a planet kingdom, Wellakh has a very nuanced and diverse culture. I'm afraid I'm not as well-acquainted with anthropology as I am with sociology, but I could take a stab at it if you'd like. What are your thoughts?

[illiriam]

I have several things to say:
1) WELL DONE! This is an impressive essay/collection. You remained largely empirical which is one of the most important things to remember when looking at something from a sociological point of view.
2) I didn't think that anyone else on here was crazy enough to torment themselves with sociology. Haha. I am a soc major, and hope to do my graduate studies in anthropology.

Some of this also applies in an anthropological point of view. The two are entwined since anthropology concerns the culture of a society, whereas sociology looks at the structure that supports society.

I will happily add to this knowledge base when I reread WH and W@W. But I was just so thrilled to see someone else looking at things from a sociological viewpoint.

[InkSlinger]

I like this exploration into alien culture, and I strongly approve of the lack of assumptions. Mad props, everyone!

I really was intrigued by SilveredBlue's idea about new wizards being adopted into royalty- it certainly is in line with monarchies (not to mention governments), which typically try to control all power. It also may explain why the common people fear magic, something which they should realize is benevolent, if dangerous. It also, of course, brings up several issues about new wizards ever coming about- their motives could be influenced by thoughts of personal gain, or they might turn away from the gift out of fear of being alienated from all that they know. All in all, Wellakh is certainly in danger of stagnation, because new people and ways of thinking do not occur often. That, perhaps, explains the unyielding social expectations and behavioral limitations of its people.

[araine]

It's a reference to the internet shortening of "too long; didn't read" or "tl;dr", which, if you add vowels between the shortenings is sometimes called "teal deer". Just my way of saying that my intro post was monstrously long.

Dairine's name is ke Khallahan because the "ke" doesn't refer to Dairine, it refers to her father. (Roshaun probably assumed that Khallahan was her father's first name, since it was Dair's last name. Also ke Harry or am Betty doesn't sound so impressive.) (Okay, I'm already rethinking that statement. Change the spelling to Hari, and Betti, and it looks alright. I guess.) Dairine's mother is dead, also, and Dairine's father is the surviving parent, so Dairine carries her father's name.

Well, she could always have been Dhairine ke Harold or Dhairine am Elizabeth. I'm sure that those sound impressive enough.

I will buy an oversight on Roshaun's part, because, well, it's quite in character for him. Or it could be an homage to earth's culture - on earth (at least, in Dairine's culture), names descend from the father, therefore he uses the patronymic suffix in order to be polite to all parties possible.

From the 'various political entites' line, it can be infered that there are more structures in place than a mere monarchy. I suspect the post of Sunlord is somewhat like the contemporary English monarchy: it is impressive and commands respect, but at the end of the day it doesn't have a lot of command over the actual country it rules.

I've always liked Wellakh's political structure (huh, go figure) because it seemed to me like it involved Locke's "social contract", and that the monarchy relies on the consent of the governed. In this case, if the governed don't give their consent, they turn violent (bad outcome), because there are no fallback systems for if/when the governed decide that they don't like their monarchs.

How widely wizardry is spread, I think, depends on the Powers That Be and possibly that species Choice more than anything. I think that wizardry being only hereditary would be absolutely detrimental to the planet. (But maybe the Lone Power designed it that way. Hmm...)

A rallying point for assassins or rebellions, hmm? Interesting. Especially if, before, there were no wizards among the general populace. It could definitely remind the people that they don't need their leaders anymore. (Of coourse, that could potentially turn into a very bloody revolution. Eeep.)

[dorotheia]

ancestors

[SilveredBlue]

I believe the reason that Roshaun refered to Dairine as 'ke Khallahan' has to do with family names. He did not know her mother's name- if he had, he would have said Dhairine am Beatrice/Elizabeth. (I doubt he would have said Betty, but I don't know what Betty's full name was.)

Thus, he refered to her by her 'clan' or 'family' modifier, 'ke'.
(Which also would make sense: Roshaun ke Neliad becomes Roshaun of the family of Neliad.)

I have a few things to add to:

GOVERNMENT

From the Errantry Wiki:

...the Wellakhit "royal family" -- especially those royals who are also wizards -- must be constantly on its guard against the machinations of various political entities that are trying to control their actions by various means...including assassination.

From the 'various political entites' line, it can be infered that there are more structures in place than a mere monarchy. I suspect the post of Sunlord is somewhat like the contemporary English monarchy: it is impressive and commands respect, but at the end of the day it doesn't have a lot of command over the actual country it rules.

Also, perhaps a new, non-royal wizard, rather than being shunned or adopted, becomes a rallying point for the assassins and revolutionaries that routinely appear.

Miril herself, on her Wiki page, is indicated as a potential user of the Sunstone, so she obviously holds power.

The Wellakhit's wizardry, as well, seems to have a highly hereditary aspect to it, so perhaps it is nearly impossible for any non-royals to achieve wizardly status. (Maybe you have to be taught to ascess the Aethyrs?)

Ooh, I love this stuff!

[araine]

New wizards are taken in by the Wellakh family- any new wizard becomes royalty, or at least a duke-or-duchess equivalent. This would support araine's idea that the Guarantor's family is large, and it would widen the availiable gene pool. *


*If the royal sucession works as it does on Earth, then the royalty usually marries (unionbonds) those of the same social status.

Hmm, that is an interesting concept, that other wizards might be "adopted" into one of the wizard families. I know that Miril is from the second wizard family, but that both families often intermarry, but it might be a way to keep variation in the gene pool.

If there's a concept of adoption, how frequently might that happen, do you think? Every time a new wizard takes the Oath? I imagine that might be a deterrent to even taking it, considering when a wizard takes it they are essentially "cast out" from their family.

I was trying to get at the "selectively astahfrith" bit in my original post, but probably wasn't quite clear. I think that among the general population, wizardry is known to exist, but is seen as an incredibly deviant behavior. I could see it putting a lot of strain on wizards, whether to "come out" with their wizardry or not, who to tell about it, whether they're a bad person for practicing wizardry (after all, even if the whole universe tells you that you are doing the right thing, sometimes it's the opinions of your neighbors that matter most). Definitely a heavy source of tension there, even if the non-royal wizards are not Guarantors.

[SilveredBlue]

Wow! That is amazing!

Okay, here's my contribution:

RELIGION/BELIEF SYSTEMS

It can be infered that the Wellakhit have some knowledge of the Powers that Be and the One, since they have a name for the Powers (the Aethyrs) and are, presumably, astahfrith.

(That's all I can figure out from the canon. )

As for potential, non-royalty wizards, that brings up three differing possible situations:

1) Wellakh is selectively astahfrith, in that non-royal wizardry is frowned upon or even persecuted.

2) There are other wizards on Wellakh, but only the royal family is obligated to stand against the Terror by Sunfire.

3) New wizards are taken in by the Wellakh family- any new wizard becomes royalty, or at least a duke-or-duchess equivalent. This would support araine's idea that the Guarantor's family is large, and it would widen the availiable gene pool. *


*If the royal sucession works as it does on Earth, then the royalty usually marries (unionbonds) those of the same social status.

[araine]

This was going to include Rirhath (and by virtue the greater galactic society?) and Demisiv, but considering Wellakh probably wins the prize for being the most complicated planetmight