Power From Disorders?

[Tuttle]

Originally posted by bluesalamanders:

1. Define gifted.
2. Show us a valid scientific source (or rather, several) that agrees with that statement.

Well first off I have to say while not a scientific source that can be proven, my counsilor has said truthfully that every kid she works with is smarter than her, knows more than her, and can get her lost incredably easily in talking about anything academic related. This is specifically social anxiety, asberger's, and such related disabilities (to the point of effecting the peoples lives) but its an example.

Gifted I'm not sure how I'd define it. I know CTY and such have certain top percentages of students, but that includes test taking abilities because they go off of tests such as SATs. I know personally I can prove I know stuff extremely easier in situations that are not tests...

However, I searched PubMed through the college's network from their library page (because it allows for complete reading of many though not all articles) and have found a few on Autism its relation to gifted children, as well as specific articles related to the subject

**Fitzgerald M.
Asperger's disorder and mathematicians of genius.
J Autism Dev Disord. 2002 Feb;32(1):59-60

**Bujas-Petkovic Z.
[Special talents of autistic children (autistic-savant) and their mental functions]
Lijec Vjesn. 1994 Jan-Feb;116(1-2):26-9. Croatian.

And another one-
Gifted children with learning disabilities: a review of the issues.

Brody LE, Mills CJ.

CTY, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD 21218, USA.

Many people have difficulty comprehending that a child can be gifted and also have learning disabilities. As a result, children with special needs that result from both their high abilities and their learning problems are rarely identified and are often poorly served. This article explores the current policies and practices with regard to defining, identifying, and educating this population. Recommendations are included that would help ensure that students who are gifted and have learning disabilities receive the intervention needed to help them achieve their full potential.

the abstract^


I have found also many on the relationship between the two focusing on the gifted. However it seems overall that its not many of the gifted people are "disabled" but many of the "disabled" are "gifted"

It all goes into people's thought of the norm I think. The idea of everyone being the same makes people define people to be "disabled" and "gifted". Truely, they are just different, and many of the different peop are different in many ways.

So overall I think that there is something in the relationship between the gifted and those with disorders, but the question is why is their this relationship.

Darryl is a representation of these people to a higher degree, and a more interesting way to red, but it is a way that makes us think about these issues.

[Myownmind]

Originally posted by nitafan211:
Well, they said one of the reason's Daryl was so powerful was his innocence and being mentally dissabled

Autims is not a menatl disability.

[Emilie]

What is autism, if not a mental disability?
(Please don't think I'm questioning your statement: I'm not. I'm just almost completely ignorant.)


-Emilie

[Myownmind]

Originally posted by Emilie:
What is autism, if not a mental disability?
(Please don't think I'm questioning your statement: I'm not. I'm just almost completely ignorant.)


-Emilie

Emilie,

I'm going to try my best to explain Autism to you, however you will never understand. Note: I am not being discriminitive to you as a person, NT's simply can't truly understand autism.

Sory I'm having a hard time tonight thinking of how to explain it so you will understand. I will work on it.

Don't wory I won't forget you.

[Tuttle]

In my opinion Autism is a mental disability, but labling as such isn't the best. Autistic people are different, and any difference is either a "disorder" or a "disability" in this society. So in western society it is a mental disability, but in general people have different focuses.

Autism also is more of a spectrum than a specific 'disability' or sometihng too.

Myownmind, I understand that nobody who's not personally affected will truely understand Autism. We can't understand, but will try.

[Myownmind]

Thanks turtle,
You don't know how much what you said means. Truthfully you are the only NT who has ever not told me that you are willing to try to understand.

Thanks again.

Dmillie,

I am still working on an explination. I want you to be able to understand, while at the same time not sacrificing any ideas. (much harder thatn it seems)

[L]

I agree that no one can understand if they haven't experienced it. I know a fair bit about autism--I am not an expert by any means, but I have tried to understand. If I knew what Myownmind was intending on saying in her explanation, I'd try an help. As it is, this is what I have to say.

It has always seemed to me that autism is a significant difference in brain wiring from the basic brain. This makes for differences in behavior and the way the brain works with the body. Sometimes these differences can be harmful (when you see a 'mentally disabled' child on tv rocking in a corner or crying at bright lights, that's severe autism) or make social interaction very difficult.

However, other than the obvious problems with the senses (I don't think anyone here would believe that being shocked by your senses is an asset) autism is not neccesarily a bad thing. Certainly autistic people don't seem to be any less intelligent than we are, unless the autism is accompanied by mental retardation of some degree, as it often is. The problem is that our society isn't prepared to accept such a difference. I'm sure Myownmind had to work hard in order to be able to interact smoothly with others--which I congratulate her for. Good job!

Autism, to me, would seem to be a radically different way of thinking. The details escape me for now, but it includes a less social mind. Autistic children, if I remember correctly, seem to not have the impulse to show parents their accomplishments and discoveries, like most children.

It has been far too long since I've studied this subject.

~L

[mythbusterfan]

I have aspurgers. Which i think is an autistic disorder. The consequences of this vary. Myself i have the odd quality of being able to memorize certain types of poetry with very little effort, I can read insanely fast(i'm not sure if any of these things have to do with autism but the psychologist said they do. *shrugs*) and I can remember odd things that aren't really important and have no relation whatsoever to the thing i'm doing at the time but come in useful later.

anyways, myownmind it's really rare that other people can understant autism exactly the way you understand it. Most people understand in different ways (doesn't mean that they are wrong) it's just how it looks from their point of view.

For example you take a scientist who knows that the sun is a star and is made up of stuff at insane temperatures. And an uneducated person who thinks the sun is the bright ball of light.

both are right. from different points of view.

The scientist could say that the sun isn't made of light it just gives off light.

The uneducated person would simply say the scientist is insane.

Different points of view.

[seabiscuit1009]

I sort of kind of have to agree with mythbusterfan on this one. See, for awhile it was thought that I had autism. I didn't...as far as I know, I was just abnormally quiet and had a very good memory and speed-reading. So, the whole part about how everyone sees autism a little differently? I agree with that. I also agree that since I probably will never have autism, I probably never will understand what myownmind has to live with. No matter what that quote says, it's not really possible to walk a mile in another person's shoes; first of all, they probably won't fit right. XD But seriously, none of us really knows what the other people here go through at home, or if they have problems like autism (for instance, I never would have found out myownmind had autism if she hadn't told us.) We can try and understand, and in the end, we might make some headway in understanding, but we'll never really know what it's like. Does this post makes sense? Of course not. But I'm trying to understand it...and that's all we can do, is try to understand what another person's circumstances are, without ever experiencing them...ok, now I know this post makes no sense. Oh well...I tried my best to explain my mind. *shrugs and gives up trying to explain herself*

-seabiscuit, a.k.a. hungry

[Tuttle]

Originally posted by mythbusterfan:
I have aspurgers. Which i think is an autistic disorder. The consequences of this vary. Myself i have the odd quality of being able to memorize certain types of poetry with very little effort, I can read insanely fast(i'm not sure if any of these things have to do with autism but the psychologist said they do. *shrugs*) and I can remember odd things that aren't really important and have no relation whatsoever to the thing i'm doing at the time but come in useful later.

Everything I was saying was off of a similar thing. I'm at the people aren't sure if I have asperbergs because I show some symptoms extremely strongly, like more than normal, and others not at all. I also can read extremely fast. As in I'll read some assignment that's three pages long and finish before my classmates finish the first paragraph (happened in class yesterday so most recent reaction). I can also remember really random facts, numbers best but alot of things. For example the poem the naming of cats has 256 words in it- I counted once for a homework assignment over 6 years ago.

The other thing that I've found really normal amoung Asperger's "suffers" is a very...logical, way of thinking, and strength in math and science. This is just me though.

But most importantly is how point of view comes in.
I cannot veiw something as a "normal" person, I automatically have other parts- this makes college applications the worst thing I've had to try.
And myownmind can't see the things the same as me. But that doesn't mean she's any "lower" than me or you.
And with this I don't think there is any norm, we all change with what happens to us, what we say and do, and what people around us say and do. So everyone has strengths and weaknesses, the questions is where we have these.

We can try and understand, and in the end, we might make some headway in understanding, but we'll never really know what it's like.

Yes, but I think that I think that there is no reason not to try to understand. The headway we make is worth the effort, and with this effort knowing we're better off than before.

The question from all of this, how close can we get to understanding someone like Darryl and his relation to this that we're discussing.

[mythbusterfan]

I never said that myownmind was "lower" I just said that she doesn't see the world exactly the same way.

Each of us has our own perspectives. Often though this leads to misunderstandings until the person explains themselves.

also no one person can completely understand how another person sees the world. they can understand eneough to get by but like say... I can't describe in perfect detail how I see the world I can give you my opinions, things I've learned, How I felt while learning them, I can't give you my emotions or how my emotions color the world or how i see certain subjects.
The most we can learn of eachother's world is bits and pieces. Never the whole thing.

Wow this is a pretty deep discussion.
The ability to have deep discussions is one of my favourite things about this place.

-MBF