Dollhouse [Spoilers]

[Kathy Li]

I like it. Not as much as I hope to in the future (to me, it looks like it's going to take half a dozen episodes before they get up to speed). And I keep wondering "Where's the Joss?" But I like it. I just wish that Fox hadn't messed up the pilot so badly that they've been fumbling around trying to the show up on its feet for the last four episodes.

The conspicuous lack of humor, though, is something I really wasn't expecting, especially since it was the jaunty bouncy dialog of Buffy/Angel/Firefly that we loved so much. This is waaaay too much emo on the top. A little banter would go a long way.

I do like how all the actives are named for letters. (Echo, Sierra, Victor---hmmm.. wonder if we'll have a Romeo and Juliet). And the setup is one that has a lot of story plot potential. I'm just not sure that I like anyone very much other than Boyd, the doctor, and (oddly) Sierra.

Anybody else watching it?

[Tsakaki]

I like it as well (I've only seen the first 3 episodes so far). You're right, the humor/witty dialogue normally associated with Joss Whedon's work seems to be absent so far. But at the same, is somewhat understandable as the actives aren't supposed to have any form of personality. I've got high hopes for the show though, it has a lot of potential.

Oddly enough, I quite like Sierra as well. I like Echo so far, but I'm a little sketchy on it, there's not enough of her off duty to really know yet (seeing as she's already showing small signs of not being quite wiped clean anymore).

I'm looking forward to future episodes, unfortunately though, I'm rarely near a tv when they're on.

[Tsakaki]

I just finished watching this weeks episode, and I'm not going to give anything away, but MAAAAAAANNNN. They definitely kicked it up a notch tonight.

[Kathy Li]

Oh, yeah. Last week's episode (Tim Minear, btw) pretty much told me that this week was likely to be the one. And as soon as that teaser was over, I thought, "It's gotta be Joss this time. The Joss we were hoping for since Episode One." And sure, enough, it was. I also love that they got Patton Oswald (Ratatouille).

I would also like to say that I totally guessed Mellie was an Active about two weeks ago. I was jumping up and down at that point. Also, I completely did NOT see that "there are 20 Dollhouses" line coming.

I so love this show.

[Tsakaki]

Oh man, I so didn't see that coming. But when I heard Adelle's voice I had a feeling. I utterly freaked when it happened, I was so happy she wasn't going to die.

The 20 Dollhouses comment through me big time. That was a major mind-blower. And now I'm trying to figure out who the friend inside is. And I hate Laurence Dominic. I'm hoping his junk blows up in his face big time. <.<.>.> And I'm totally shipping Topher/Saunders.

I'm super curious about Alpha, and why he's doing it all. I'm kind of thinking of him as a kind of good-guy with crazy tendencies, but we'll see what he actually is eventually I hope.

There IS text up there, it's just white to hide spoilers.

switched to spoiler tags to avoid problems with non-white backgrounds-gf

[KizzyShima]

Good to know I'm not the only one watching!

Dollhouse is definitely different than I expected for a Joss show, but then again I didn't watch Buffy or Angel and yet loved Firefly, so I can't really say much for what I "expect" from Joss. I do wish there was more witty banter, simply because witty banter breaks up all the dun-dun-duuuuh of the show.

Nevertheless, I think the darkness of the show makes it all the more enticing to keep watching. But can they keep up with revealing things that make us go "WHAT?!" Eventually they are actually going to have to explain themselves, right?

Victor is my favorite, I don't know why. Just like him.

[illiriam]

I am also glad to see others are watching. I was worried, because I am a big fan of Joss, and felt that Fox wasn't advertising it enough. Hopefully it stays on air for at least the five seasons that I think I remember reading that Joss had planned.
I have been hooked since the first week. Since before the first episode actually. lol. I find myself looking forward to Friday Night Dollhouse on Wednesday nights. haha. I also enjoy that Joss is trying to make each episode like a pilot, so that you can just start watching and not feel lost. I keep dragging people to my room to make them watch too.
Eliza is such a good actress, and I feel that she really makes the show what it is. I loved her on Buffy, and in Bring It On, and Tru Calling (it was an okay show that I felt was only saved by her acting).
But, I understand why Victor would be a favorite too.

[Kathy Li]

Ok, I just added spoilers to the thread title, so that we won't end up with completely black (or white) discussion blocks. BTW, in case you forgot or didn't know the blacking out can be done with a [SPOILER] tag.

I'm going to set an arbitrary rule here that if it's only a spoiler for those who aren't up-to-date with the show, then it's ok not to white/black-out the text. But if it a future happening that hasn't yet occurred on the show, like say TV Guide completely spoiling that rot13ed spoiler: Ivpgbe, Fvreen, naq Rpub nyy trg gurve zrzbevrf onpx in two weeks that we make an effort to white/blackout the text or rot13 or something else so someone has to choose to be spoiled to read the text.

I really enjoyed last Friday's episode, which surprised me a little, as Fain & Craft are not my fave writing team ever from Buffy/Angel. I did like the Firefly call out (where Topher was saying "If it's about her speaking Cantonese instead of Mandarin...."). I'm not sure that I agree with the sort of unspoken "PETA is a good thing" vibe, but a good story, nonetheless, as well as letting us get a glimpse into the Active recruitment process.

And yes, I do have to admit, I loved the "Band Candy"-esque scene of Topher sans pants and a giggly DeWitt and silly Dominic. Also, completely loved Victor as FBI man.

I do wonder who the Mole is and what the purpose of the Dollhouse is. I'm hoping that it turns out to be someone completely unlikely like DeWitt, and not someone likely-ish like the Doctor or Boyd. Although I do think that there's a lot more backstory on Boyd--he's feeling rather Shepherd Book-like to me, especially with the piano sequence.

[magicalmike]

Like ive said Joss Whedon never fails to deliver a good show. But the humor i agree is sadly lacking. Though it seems to be creeping out. The latest episode had a few good moments. DeWitt is starting to develop and round out. I think the shows only gonna get better. Though the whole awakening thing they are advertising seems kinda early(its a commercial not a spoiler so im good i hope).

And Kathy i was loving the firefly shoutouts. Im wondering if hell sneak a few more in? Dr horrible maybe?

[Kathy Li]

I am so disappointed it was all just a fake out. (sigh). I was really hoping they were going to actually mess with their continuity and setup for a moment, there...

[Kathy Li]

Ok, don't want to get anybody's hopes up too high, but according to The Futon Critic, it looks like we'll get a second season. (Yay!)

I do want to emphasize that usually the Futon Critic's sources are good, but you never know until the upfronts roll out with the complete fall schedule. I remember a few years ago when the Futon Critic reported in far more solid/positive terms that Dark Angel was definitely renewed for a third season. And then overnight, Joss Whedon pitched them Firefly as a fall release, and DA was cancelled to make room on the schedule.

The upfronts will be happening next week, btw, so if there's a particular show you're interested in or you just want to hear about what new shows are coming up, you may want to check out the Futon Critic's scorecard .

[Kathy Li]

Grand Unifying Theory

I have come up with a Grand Unifying Theory for the Dollhouse. I think I have sussed what the show is About. I have found "the Buffy."

Joss Whedon used to ask his writers, "where's the Buffy?" of a Buffy episode, which was shorthand for "what's this episode about--where's the emotional meat of it?" So, while the plot might be about a witch putting on a glamor--the "buffy" of the episode was about the fear of growing old and that your glory days are behind you. That sort of thing.

To me, DOLLHOUSE is about making a tv drama.

Joss is equal parts Adele and Topher: those who know the Dollhouse is a force for good, who want to run it well, who take joy in doing a good job in making all the disparate pieces work, and who run a blind eye to the fact that they are more than just a little pandering.

Boyd and Ballard are Joss's conscience--the ones warning him that things could be terribly terribly wrong, and that may be this power they have isn't a good one.

The dolls are much like the actors--sweet, beautiful young things who voluntarily hand themselves over to the writers to be filled with whatever charaters and actions they come up. Ready and eager to be sold as who they play.

The clients are part network, part sponsors, and part audience. We know what we want, but what we want isn't always good either for us, the show, or the dolls.

And Echo? Echo is part Joss--wanting to deconstruct the Dollhouse, and part the truefen--the ones who live the stories to the point where it's more real than reality. Brownshirts have proven they can be a powerful force for good, but they can also be scary dedicated fans.

Just a working theory.

[Birdhead]

How terrific was the most recent episode? (And how depressing is it that they'll be doubling-up through December? I just can't think that's a good sign for the future of the show . ) But the last episode was just so incredible. It really undercut Adele and Topher and the premise of the show - which, since I find the premise of the show incredibly creepy, I was totally thrilled with. When Adele is so horrified by what's been happening to Sierra it really, to me, highlights the way what the Dollhouse is doing is really only marginally better. I just think it's terrific. Gah, Joss, I have to admit I didn't trust you for awhile in there (I really didn't like Instinct), but OK, you got me again.

I loved seeing the glimpses of Priya. I was so devastated for her at the end of the episode, and in a way quite frustrated - I adore Sierra and I would have been miserable if she'd left the Dollhouse, but it also seemed cruel and unfair that that meant that the story had to be constructed in such a way that a moment that should have been powerful for Priya - rejecting and defeating a man who had been raping her for a year - turned into something destructive.

And how fabulous was it that we got to see so much Echo? A blogger I read (Capitalism Bad; Tree Pretty) has said that Dollhouse has a fatal flaw: most of the regular *characters* are bad guys. Topher's amoral, Adele is... disturbed, Boyd thinks he has morals but he never lets his sense of superiority get in the way of sending brainwashed men and women out to be raped, and Ballard, well, Ballard was a creepy stalker in the first season (and I still haven't forgiven him for sleeping with Mellie) and in the second season he's still mostly a jerk. Echo's increasing continuity of character - I mean *Echo*, not her imprints - is a way out of this flaw (if you agree that it's a flaw.) I like that Victor and Sierra are also gaining some continuity. It's all really fabulous.

[Kathy Li]

Think it may be worse than just a doubling up. Chances are good, the "back nine" order isn't coming in. Can't say it's really all that surprising, though.

[Magic Butter]

Gah...I always seem to come back to these forums because of good news (in this case, I just read we seem to have a date for a new book, I'm so HAPPY) and then I'm squashed.

I'm getting sick and tired of my favorite series getting cancelled. >.<

EDIT: ahh, my icon disappeared, *goes hunt for a new one*