Atheism

[Onua Wingstar]

Not at all.

Here's what I think the problem is: Genesis was written by men.

Freshman year in my (Catholic, all-girls) high school we took a class called "Women in the Bible." It wasn't as interesting as it could have been, but the course talked a bit about how the people (read, "men") through whom the contents of the Bible were passed onto paper influenced what was written. The story of Genesis is just that - a story. While I believe it does contain important spiritual truths (such as, God created the world, humans have souls, etc. etc.), there are also some statements that don't sound right.

On the other hand, sometimes those and other oppressive-sounding statements are a question of the language used and its interpretation. I haven't studied this in any formal manner, so I'm sure I can't give you the best explanation out there, but I've often found that such confusing messages become clearer under scrutiny.

The most important thing to remember is that Christians believe that the New Testament, and especially the Gospels, take precedence over the rest of the Bible, because they contain, after all, the teachings of Christ. And I'm happy to say, the New Testament treats women quite a bit better than the Old Testament.

I tried to find some resources for you, and I came up with this site

[maxxrox]

In response to all of this "God had a hand in creation" talk, I have to ask why you people believe this. Why is the existance and proof of a god so necessary? Do you feel so lonely in the universe that you need a higher power to look after you? Personally, I do not see a need for any higher power, nor any proof of one. I know religion is based on faith, but I want to know why people believe what can't be proven.

[the_peridexis]

Thanks, Onua. That clarifies things a little bit.

Maxx, that's probably the most difficult question I've ever been asked, because it's not something I can give a straight answer to. The existance of God is necessary because, quite simply, it is true. Look after us? Lonely? No. He (though he really has no gender, saying he just makes it simpler) does not look after us, he forces us to look after ourselves. I mean, look around you; does it look like God is making life a walk in the park? He knows we are capable of solving so many of our problems, and he's giving us a chance to do that, and be rewarded for what we do right.

For instance, take Adolph Hitler. He went through his life killing millions of helpless innocents. In my opinion, it's not fair that all he got was death when he ruined so many lives. Because he is dead, God takes care of him, and will give him what he deserves. That doesn't mean if somebody does something horrible that they should be killed; God no. What it means is that a person will always get what he deserves, whatever their life was like.

As for being lonely? He's not physically there, so he can't exactly give you a hug, but he's always there to listen. Humans did not begin to believe in God because they were lonely, maxx. They believe in him because he is real.

So I notice that for many hard-core Atheists that was woefully inadequate, utterly unbelievable. But don't think that I am indoctrinated in any way. I am not; for every aspect of my religion, I ask questions and get answers. So I'm not a deluded fool, and always know that I will never force my religion on any of you for any reason.

-peri

[Cress]

Hmmm...that's a really good question Maxx. I guess I sometimes feel like I'm obligated to believe in a God, at least in this day and age. People seem to act like you only can have morals if you believe in a God. However, I think some people need to believe in a God because they need an order. They need a sense that there is more to life than simply what we can see, becuase without it they would have no hope. I think that's what peri was talking about with the Hitler example, although that's kind of the negative way of saying it.
People need a God to fill in the gaps where they cannot explain things, because they are curious. They are not content to say they do not know. At least a lot of people are not.
Some people are just used to it. It's a thing of habit-they were raised with religion and couldn't live without it.
Some people use it relieve themselves of moral responsibility. They might believe that by acting as a church tells them, they are good people, but really what they want is to be able to follow a set of rules without thinking for themselves, and not have the guilt that comes with making difficult decisions without that list of a moral guide.

As for the childbearing thing...part of it was that the Old Testament was sometimes used in the same way as mythology-to explain things that people could not understand. That would explain the pain of childbearing thing, but the more obediant to the husband thing was covered pretty well by Onua. The men writing the Old Testament simply did not understand childbirth, so they felt a need to explain it somehow.

I agree with everyone about the atmosphere. I feel really self concious talking about my beliefs with my friends, because I go to a Catholic school, so many of my friends are Catholics. I don't really feel unaccepted if I talk about it, just outnumbered and uncomfortable. Those of my friends that are atheists are the kind of people who are just angry about life. I couldn't have a theological debate with them. The only place I can talk about this stuff is with my mom or here.
And hey, thanks Mel and Gryph! I just think about this stuff a lot...it's big on my mind.

[Onua Wingstar]

Originally posted by the_peridexis:
Thanks, Onua. That clarifies things a little bit.

No problem. I'm sorry it was so woefully inadequate; I don't argue unless I can back up what I say, and it doesn't mean there isn't a more complete answer out there - it just means I don't have it on me!

And as for your question, Maxx, I can't really say I ever "decided" to believe in God. Yes, I made a formal recognition of my faith in the Catholic sacrament called Confirmation, but I've just sort of always known He was there. It's not as if I woke up one day and said, "I think there should be a God!" - it was sort of the other way around, actually.

I pretty much agree with what Peri said. Believing what can't be proven...well, that takes quite a bit of courage, doesn't it?

[Frivs]

Cress, I agree completely about atmosphere. I'm not all too worried about what other people think of me (frankly, if someone is going to treat me with disrespect they've lost all chance of favors and/or good naturedness from me lol), but no one can deny that being questioned constantly about your beliefs is uncomfortable.

For some reason, people generally think I'm conservative (not sure why, maybe because I don't swear all the time or wear skulls lol Yay for stereotypes! (not)), and I always dread the day someone asks me "What are you?", because most of the time their perspective and attitude toward me changes. Of course, my first answer to this question is always "Human.", but usually the people who treat me differently afterward are the same kind who don't get that answer XD

One of the girls who asked me this question just recently, was friendly to me before, and now it's as if she's constantly watching to see if I do something evil, just the way she talks to me has changed. (What I find extremely laughable about her is that she wears "Stop the Hate" buttons all the time *rolls eyes*)

It's so hard these days to find people you can just talk to, and have an intelligent, mature conversation with about these types of subjects, I'm lucky to have found as many people as I have.

[the_peridexis]

I know exactly what you mean. Just for the record, I think it's ridiculous to treat someone differently because of their beliefs. Frankly, I wouldn't care if you belived rats grew wings and would soon control the world; who you are and how you think mean so much more to me.

Morals have nothing to do with what religion, if any, you have. Morals have to do with what choices you make. I hope, Piper, that you've found people who accept you for who you are regardless of your religious belifs. Whether or not you regard you as one of those people, I think you're awesome.

-peri

[Rubywolf]

I am atheist in an exetremely catholic community, and for that reason, a lot of people shun me. It's easy to shun people who are not like me.

[the_peridexis]

That sucks, Rubywolf, and their are a lot of people here who know how you feel. I think a lot of us, (me included) for whatever reason, know what it's like to be alienated.

On a completely different note, what does tintinnabulation mean? (if you're not used to my randomness...well, you'll live. )

-peri

[Onua Wingstar]

It's onomatopoeia - it's a word for the ringing sound of bells. Its most famous usage was in a poem by Poe.

</randomness>

[maxxrox]

Which one?

Off Topic: (He he) Slithy tove and vorpal blades (he he).

[Rubywolf]

yeah, which one? (the one about the bells?)(the rest of this post is to stop it from being a oneliner. Have a nice day. Now go get a life.)

[nita2011]

Just out of curiosity...How is this relavent to YW??? If somone could explaine it, it would be nice.

[Gigo]

It's sort of, and it's sort of not. But the point is - It doesn't have to be. This is Chatter II, remember?

A place to talk about stuff that may only slightly involve the "Young Wizards" books (or not at all).

And I personally am an Atheist.

But, you know, that's just me.

[Hahaha...im on...after centuries]

I basically believe that there is a greater force, but I don't want to believe in the creation story 100%, nor the Evolutionalist view (aka Big Bang). The problem with the creationist view is that you are solely relying on the Bible as the primary resource for information.

It states, frankly, that the world was created in about 6 days (read the Bible 7th days isnt really a creation-day). what is good about the bible, is that it does not describe how long these days of creation span for. So you can say that one day is equivalent to a decade-and it could still be called a day. Now, with this lack of specification, you can say that it would work in relation with the Big Bang, where the Big Bang did not occur in one day, but billions of years. The down side of the Creationalist view is that you come to the question about dinosaurs, which Onua had mentioned several posts back. DINOSAURS HAD TO EXIST, since we have bones as literal evidence. There is, of course the alternative to the theory of why there are bones in the earth--God (of a god) decided that it would be hillarious to play a joke on feeble humans who would come to that conclusion. [Then we would go to an evil-doing God...even Sadistic, some would say. Philosophy...hehe]

Now there is also the Big Band, which basically says that there was a starting point and that as time passes, the would become more evolved. But this theory points the theory that by random chance the would becomes more organized (Since space was the not-st-organized start). We are , in a sense, becoming more evolved and developed in complex ways. BUT THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE! In fact, the universe's natural order becomes for confused. Entropy becomes greater! Think, for example, your bedroom. Your bedroom-over a month- will not become more organized. it will become more messy...until you decide to clean it.

Ah...but I think I'll stop here. It's rather long. Got caught up....i'm doing this in class! Finally a reason to apply Philosophy!