Atheism

[Lamarquise]

is

[Angel_Star]

Nella: I'm not saying I'm superior in any way to anybody else. Yes, I think my religion is right; if I thought I was wrong, I wouldn't be following that religon. Everyone is a child of God... I would say more that I acknowledge that I am and think of it as my responsibility as such to lead a life pleasing to God. I think that baptism is a way of showing publicly that you are willing to be committed to God. But that's more of a fine point in Christianity and...yeah. Different churches believe different things there. This is going to sound like I'm condemning everybody, and I guess I am, but what I truly believe is that if you do not have Jesus in your life, you cannot go to Heaven. Your religion does not make the kind of person you are. You can be a perfectly wonderful person with the greatest morals, greatest everything, and your religion might not have the slightest influence on that.

I know that I have my problems, my issues, my flaws of character. I know that there are people out there who don't have the same religion as me, but they're probably better people than me. I won't deny that I'm not where I should be in my life.

I don't think that it's my rules, my holidays, or even my Bible that saves me. I think that my belief that Jesus is Lord of my life and that He saved me from my sins is what saves me.

[Gryphon]

I think Angel Brains is one of the nicest and sweetest people I've ever known. If the choice was mine, I would've been raised Christian. I would've had a lot more hope, security, and a sense of being loved when I was depressed and almost suicidal. And when life feels empty, the gap would be filled, and when there's no hope, I'd beleive there to be anyway. Whether you beleive in God or not, there's always some sort of hope; faith would give a person a reason to feel it.

I could be wrong (but I'm almost certain I'm not), but the "god" was added into the Pledge during the cold war or something so that we could say we're religious when the Soviet Union is not. Y'know? It's hard to explain, but it's like saying, "I'm taking pride [blatantly] in something you're not."

Wazzit, sociopaths are the people who don't care about anyone but themselves.

Cilious:
we talk about relgion sometimes but i never force anything on them.

Yeah. I talk about religion with some of my friends too, but we never get into a debate, and we never let religion get between us. J was telling me about how putting microchips for identity and other uses in people's heads or on their hands is like the mark of the beast, and how the connection was eerie.

'Nella:
Though I have to say, some parts of judaisim are bull, and same with perhaps every other religion on the plant.

Pshh, you've gotten say Judaism is a cool religion on some holidays. (But I don't understand why, after a chaotic/pivotal event in the history of the Jews, the most significant part is eating bread without yeast.) I've got Jewish friends too.

When people rant about religion, usually it's Christianity. Like the terrorists being the most vocal, despite the majority, people have a problem with it because it's all over the place. (And then you've got the extremists sitting on their podium saying, "Katrina is God's punishment for having gays in America!") So, in other words, Christianity is made to look worse than it is; like atheism, there are a lot of great Christian people; the extremists who hate on people are the minority.

Nnn... I don't want to debate intelligent design/creationism. You either beleive in it or you don't. And by being Christian, it doesn't mean you beleive in intelligent design either.

Umm... I don't know if all of the previous stuff I said made any sense, but... Your beleifs don't make you a bad person. Your beleifs don't give anyone a reason to stereotype you, and you can't make generalities about any religions.

No problem. :P For me, sometimes it's hard to understand a person who's too different from me, or to grow up in situations radically different. Like... if you were to grow up in one Catholic school, and in your junior year of highschool, you went to a public school where people beat each other up, make out in the hallways, and do drugs after school (along with language, dress, and everything else... lol). I only knew the two mildest swear words and listened to classical music until I moved. When I was suddenly immersed in a radically different culture, yeah... It's really easy to be sheltered, and just when you feel like you know it all, something else hits you.

I think she means something along the lines of, "If there's a God, where is he? 'Cuz the state of this world and everything that happens in it is... (insert whatever)." If God exists, things are the way they are because of free will, etc, etc. I'm reading Paradise Lost in brit lit class.

It's almost like a slap in the face. It's like saying, "We're all Christians here, so suck it up." I'm not Christian, so I don't want to live under their banner. To me, it stings. It's hard to understand the feeling -- it's a lot like outrage.

[Angel_Star]

Gryphish:
I think Angel Brains is one of the nicest and sweetest people I've ever known.

Aww...thankies! That's one of the best things someone's said about me.

I used to never really feel God...like, He was just some abstract...thing that was there, but not really. Not substantially, and not in a way I could feel. Now though, I'm starting to understand what those people are talking about when they ramble on about how God has worked in their lives, and how they see His hand in everything. I guess my recent disillusionment as to the character of certain people is what really showed me this. I put so much store into my friends, my boyfriend, so much trust, that I thought I'd never get hurt by them. Not that badly, not that deeply. I guess I'm just a really sensitive person by nature. One heartache is enough for me, thank you very much. But through that, I really felt God keeping me up, keeping my head above the water. There wasn't a day in that, what, three week? time period that I didn't come home and just cry. I was hurt so much...so much more than I guess most people, because... I don't know why, but I take things really hard. But anyways, I feel like God provided for me there, that he had my net of friends in place to catch me when I lost what I treasured so much. Friends who pointed out that in the long run, that whole situation wouldn't mean so much and supported me while it still did.

I seem to have a lot of sermons coming out of me lately, don't I? And I'm the one who always gets a guilt trip when talking about God and religion with my friends...

I'd have to say I've been very sheltered. I've never gone to any school but private Christian ones, never lived in a bad neighborhood, never had anything really bad every happen to me. I've been called a female dog *cough* a few times, but I'd have to say that's about the worst of it, besides backstabbing friend issues. Heh, when it comes to experience in "the world", I've got next to nothing. I haven't even been kissed, for goodness sake, and I went out with my boyfriend for over seven months. I ramble wayy too much.

I believe that God wants us to come to Him out of our own will. It's like...say, forcing someone to be your friend. They'd come grudgingly; the friendship would be worthless. Yes, I know, very bad example. I believe that God allows certain things to happen for His own reasons. I wouldn't try to comprehend the mind of God, because I know my intellect falls wayy short. Once again, though, different denominations (and people) feel differently about this inside the big umbrella of Christianity.

All my friends are Christians, or call themselves Christians. I have some doubts about a few, but that's between them and God. Catholicism is as diverse as it gets. That's just because my choice of friends is basically limited to school and my neighborhood, and the only one I talk to at home is my neighbor/ex stalker.

Well, because I was supposed to get offline about ten minutes ago, you will get no more random rambling sermons from me. (At least not in this post...heh.)

[Space Cadet]

Not being American, I don't have to bear being labelled Christian just because of where I was born, so I can't say much on what that is like. But what gets me is the "we are all God's children" line. If it was "we are God's children" I wouldn't mind, but when the word 'all' is in there, it feels bad to me. I am not God's child. See? If you change but one word, the world becomes a more tolerant place.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that in America, Atheists and non-Christians have to compromise to Christians, but Christians never have to compromise.

Is it because of numbers? Here in Japan, Christians are the minority. But they never try to push their beliefs on people, even the Jehovahs Witness who came to my door yesterday. I said "not interested" and she said "ah, okay" and went away. In New Zealand, a Jehovahs Witness once put his foot in the doorway so my Mum could not close the front door, and then he kept on preaching. We started looking out the bathroom window, and not answering the door if it was a Jehovahs Witness.

[sharklord]

After being long absent from the posting part of the forums, I have decided to once again make a post. I have no idea why the first post I've decided to make, however, is, of course, in one of the most controversial topics being actively debated. I must be nuts.

However, I'd like to toss my few cents in, and even though I doubt they'll be worth too terribly much to anyone, I'd like to say them anyway.

As to atheism: as a practicing Christian, I'd have to personally side against it. However, this doesn't mean that I think that people who are atheists are bad people, evil, etc. I just say that I don't personally perfer that stand. The same goes for other religions. I personally believe that everyone is responsible for their own beliefs and therefore it is fully up to them (exercising what I call God-given free will) to make whatever choices in life suits them.

I think that having strong faith in a religion does not have to be expressed by throwing it in the faces of people of none or other religions--this is not much more than hot air, and only raises tempers, as opposed to leading another to your personal religion or having a fufilling, worthwile debate. Really, if you think about it, would the optimum situation be to simply offer your perspective and allow the person to make his/her own choice? As I believe, God gave us free will so we could percisely do (or not do) just that. If he had wanted all of us to do exactly what He wanted, then we would be doing exactly what he wanted. Forcing a faith down someone's throat will only lead to them trowing it right back up again.

My point here is that we should be able to be free to let everyone else be free. First and foremost is our responsibility to eachother as people, intrinsically valuable people, regardless of what beliefs we may have about the world. Let everything else sort itself out in the way that it does.

That's about it...for those of you still reading, thanks for humoring me...

[Nella]

[Peter Murray]

Hey, why are so many religious people posting in an atheism topic ?

Nella said:
Did you realize that when you posted this, you stated something incredibly hurtful and horrible. You cannot know this for sure, infact, what happened to all the people before Jesus, where did they go after death?

I don't know how "official" it's supposed to be, but Dante, in his Inferno, had a section of limbo for the "virtuous pagans" - all the good people, Aristotle and so on, who died before Jesus came along, and who therefore weren't Christians and couldn't get into Heaven.

[Sean L.]

Go Dante's Inferno

[Angel_Star]

I'm going to back out of this topic before I hurt more feelings, but I'll say a few more things real quick.

I personally believe that if you are truly a Christian, you will try with all your heart to do what is right in the eyes of God, therefore, you wouldn't go out and rob banks or do anything like that. No, my salvation isn't guaranteed. I think it's possible to lose salvation, but I believe that if I died right now, at this very instant, I have assurance of Heaven. And as for babies... I think that God judges only those who have come to the point where they can choose for themselves what path to follow.

And Nella, I'm not trying to gain friends that way. I'm just saying what I believe to be true. I probably should have just avoided that topic, but I didn't. I'm sorry for that.

And now, I'll just leave this topic, because I seem to just be constantly saying the wrong things.

[Gryphon]

Sharky:
I must be nuts.

... ... :P YAHAHAHAHAHA! [Has he admitted it!?]

Yo, please don't chew out Angel. That's called really not cool, and though her beleifs come across as hypocritical or whatever, she's really not going to go rob a bank also because of her beleifs and the fact that she's a good person.

[Nella]

Sean, I couldn't agree with you more. Christians, though the heart of their religion may be in the right place, have been doing their best to push it onto others.

Angel, there is nothing wrong with saying what you believe, and I personally think that perhaps the way you were brought up has influence in the way you see things, as it does with everyone. You claim all your friends are Christain, which shows that perhaps you havent heard many other points of views before. I should say I'm sheltered as well, all problems I've had are internal. I'm sorry I made you feel that you are always saying the wrong thing, I was only defending myself. I do not think you would rob a bank, but do you think that I would have more chance of doing so just because I'm jewish?
To everyone who supports Angels beliefs, as she has stepped out of the topic, answer me when i ask... If i were to say, that I were touched by God as you were, would you say thats impossible. Would you say that God would never reach out to me because I'm jewish? Can I not see a flower bloom, or the sky change shade from season to season the way you can, just because I am Jewish. Can I not say that God supports me when I really need It? And if no, what does support me? "the devil"?


Nella

Commited Fratcha-Bruta

[sharklord]

I'm about to do a very foolish thing, I think, in that I'm perhaps risking my friendship to make a point. I guess someone's got to make it, and since people are starting to exit this topic, which is what i should be doing, I'm gonna make these few small points, then go.

Nella:
Angel Star: you quote "This is going to sound like I'm condemning everybody, and I guess I am, but what I truly believe is that if you do not have Jesus in your life, you cannot go to Heaven."

Well, this is a tenent of her faith. You'll just have to live with it. In your next post, you'll say that you can't believe how rude I am, and how you're shocked that I'm "siding" with Angel. Perhaps I am. However, I think this needs to be said. Angel has every right to say what she believes, and while, at the same time, she doesn't have the right to intentionally hurt other members feelings, I don't think this was her aim. This statement, especially read without any qualifying statments (Especially the Catholic notion of the Anonymous Christian) does have to potential to sound high-handed and condemning. What has happened, I think, is that in a topic that is heated and charged with deep personal convictions the inevitable happened--someone got hurt, and claws came out.

At any rate, if you don't happen to believe in this particular tenent of faith, then you don't have much in particular to worry about, do you? Just because one group of people believes something, doesn't mean that that has to negatively impact you. Angel didn't say what she said to hurt you, she just said what she believed. Let's not take this thing to extremes, please?

[Nella]

No sharky, I'm not going to say how rude you are, nor will I say anything else. If me being a hard headed brat is too much, then you should just say it. Forget it, because no one cares really. Forget it all, just do, because you want to. And with that, I'll drop out of this bored.

[Space Cadet]

There's no need to snap at Sharklord. He's the one making the most sense.

Wow, it's amazing how quickly a healthy debate can go bad. I was having fun until everyone started yelling.