Can We Be Open?

[Elder Math]

The saddest part of all of this, is although we hold a hard Christian majority, we were built around the concept of religion and social freedom.

How are we religiously and socially free when so many people can't have the most basic of freedoms for there lifestyles? Gay marriage does not hurt anyone, but can't be recognized legally? Blind faith types seem to think religion goes well in government, but the original concept of keeping the two seperate was an act of un-biasing the government.

The majority of our forefathers were not christian. Most were deists, we had some quakers, and for the most part they were very much about letting people worship whatever they believed the way they believed it. We've lost sight of that as a country and I find that sad.

Especially when it IS based around a christian concept. The concept of the good samaritan suggests why example is better than rule.

[Kessa Cirtos]

I think it's the preconceived notion of what a society thinks of as "normal" that's to blame. It's the age-old adage of "nature or nature?" at question here. Religion isn't something a person's born with (my opinion, since I think of a baby as a clean slate for opinions and ideas), but something one learns as a person grows up under the influence of outside forces.

Here's an interesting thought - I grew up, baptized as Catholic, but practicing Judaism and Catholicism and eventually entering a completely different sect of Christianity - the Methodist faith. Although I grew up with these religions as a foundation to step up on, I found that I don't particularly think bad or good of Jesus, just that he was a prophet and that, no matter what the Bible says, it's still a book to me and that I should learn from it, not live by it. So I learned the Ten Commandments among other things, but was never told to be close-minded to ideas such as male-and-male relationships.

After watching the Discovery Channel, I had learned that sometimes same-gender relationships aren't normal, but not unheard of in other species. Well, if they can do it, why not us? I mean, I'd have to agree with religion on one aspect and that is that I've heard the argument from a friend that if everyone was homosexual, then we'd die out. I haven't much fear for that since there are several healthy individuals that fawn after the other gender and equally healthy other people who prefer the same gender.

I have had two best friends who're homosexual, one bi and the other actually has a boyfriend whom I'm always glad to hear about. I believe that life is too short not to enjoy and if that's the way my best friends want to do it, then it's fine by me. (So long as they don't kill someone, do something illegal, then by all means be happy!)

You can't stop a person from being what they are, you can only help make them be all that they can be. I am not sure how some of these people discovered that they prefered the same gender, but I'm sure that not all of them had traumatic experiences.

After all, I some times like the occasional girl but find it healthy to do so. I grew up with religion and my parents never pushed boys at me or anything so brutal. (Though I have a hilarious story about the time my mom feared I was a lesbian. xD)

Some times, people are paranoid about being the odd ball out. *Shakes her head.*

[Elder Math]

It is also interesting to note that traumatic experience can be as much a deterent as a cause, and homosexuality is probably the very least of things that can stem from it.

This issue seems rather simply handled by anyone who thinks about it, and I've even heard people who have a problem with it confess that it's them with the problem. I wish we could look at hatred as an abnormality rather than the personal preferences of another person.

[William]

Yeah, but what little genetic data the Y chromosome has mostly the genes for male sex traits, repeated over and over, to slow the degeneration. The problem with the Y is that it lacks a homologous chromosome, which means no crossovers and no recessive traits, so it's slowly degenerating. Eventually there will be nothing left on the Y but the gender determinative, at which point it may attach itself to another gene and repeat the process, or attach to an X chromosome, giving us XX males and females (Apparently happened in mole voles, whatever those are.)

Male susceptibility to X-linked traits is just because we don't have a homologous X chromosome to override crappy recessive traits with the not-crappy dominate (Like hemophilia). Despite this, the Y overrides the X in terms of gender-determination, (Remember, XXY is male), so males are still likely to have more ingrained sexual orientation and traits. I should still note though, that this is just a hypothesis based on evidences like 'stuff I heard from my ex-girlfriend' and 'something I read somewhere', and with an explanation that makes sense to me slapped on.

Hey, that was kinda fun! And I got to use stuff I learned in Bio 30. On a less sciency note, I live in Canada. Gay marriage is totally legal up here.

...I thought I had more to say, but I forget what is was now. Oh well.

[BelieverInWizardry]

I find absolutely nothing wrong with homosexuality. I have several gay friends (both guys and girls) and they're no different than any of my other friends. It isn't really a big deal... Even if you don't like it, there's no sense in fighting against it. Why not just let everyone be happy? A lesbian friend of mine nearly had a nervous breakdown trying to tell her mother she had a girlfriend. Luckily it all went well.

As for gay marriage, why not? I mean, if Brittany Spears can get married for a grand total of 55 hours just because she felt like it, then who's to say a gay couple who are very much in love get married?

Is there anything really wrong with love? I certainly don't think so. How is it any different between two men, or two women, as opposed to a man and a woman?

[Rubywolf]

There are eight genders. For some reason, many people only accept two of those genders! I reall could care less if two women decide to marry, it's their decision and has nothing todo with me. I think that the US government should be less conservative and just make homosexual marriage legal. If people don't like it, then they should ignore it, because forcing other people to change their way of life so that the world can be straight is infringement upon the rights of people.

[Elder Math]

Originally posted by Rubywolf:
There are eight genders. For some reason, many people only accept two of those genders! I reall could care less if two women decide to marry, it's their decision and has nothing todo with me. I think that the US government should be less conservative and just make homosexual marriage legal. If people don't like it, then they should ignore it, because forcing other people to change their way of life so that the world can be straight is infringement upon the rights of people.

Hmm, do you know a good place to read about the "eight genders"? I have never heard this theory before but would like to read more on it.

[Rubywolf]

The eight genders isn't a theory. I'll list them.

heterosexual female
heterosexual male
homosexual female
homosexual male
transvecdite female
transvecdite male
female born with male genetalia
male born with female genetalia

It's the possible genders that a baby could be born with. Excuse any and all spelling mistakes.

[wizy123]

hmmm now thats an interesting theory... i have no problume what so ever about homosexuality (might be the fact that i place myself in that catogory) but i do have a slight problume with the people that want to change their sex... i get why they are doing it but that is just not natrual. i can under stand that they feel like the opposite sex but you also have to remember that you were born one way and you should stay that way...

now the one problume i find most annoying about people in general. is the fack that most of them dont understand that homosexuality is not a choice it is somthing you are born with wheter you like it or not you just ether act on it or you dont thats the only real difference.

the religius perspective an this happy little fact i find extreamly infuriating. why is it that a lot of good people that are gay or of a different religion go to helll because they ether like the same sex or dont belive in the god in particular... i know pleanty of great people that are gay and that are not christians and i find that if they die and are not let into heaven then that is just extremly crule and unusual to the person.

[Elder Math]

Originally posted by wizy123:
hmmm now thats an interesting theory... i have no problume what so ever about homosexuality (might be the fact that i place myself in that catogory) but i do have a slight problume with the people that want to change their sex... i get why they are doing it but that is just not natrual. i can under stand that they feel like the opposite sex but you also have to remember that you were born one way and you should stay that way...

now the one problume i find most annoying about people in general. is the fack that most of them dont understand that homosexuality is not a choice it is somthing you are born with wheter you like it or not you just ether act on it or you dont thats the only real difference.

Why shouldn't they? There are plenty of unnatural things that people do every day that we overlook and don't notice, and frankly, after such an operation I doubt anyone would notice.

It's there choice, whether to live one way or not. Plus, it's not always about "fitting in" or "being normal"...sometimes it's just that the person involved has a yearning.

If you choose to be open and accepting isn't it a good idea to be open and accepting of all around you? Is "not natural" a logical application to this problem when it is possible? I think that it would have more facets than just that.

edited to trim quote - GF

[wizy123]

ya i guess i just kinda find it creepy to find somone that has that opperation. but i guess i can be accepting of it. i just kinda get that weird when they did that

[Rubywolf]

We (as a species) find most things that we are not accustumed to as creepy or unatural. It may be that we are the ones that are unatural.

[Garrett Fitzgerald]

Originally posted by Elder Math:
It's there choice, whether to live one way or not.

EM -- homosexuality is not a choice. Celibacy, whether homosexual or heterosexual, is.

[Elder Math]

Originally posted by Garrett Fitzgerald:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Elder Math:
It's there choice, whether to live one way or not.

EM -- homosexuality is not a choice. Celibacy, whether homosexual or heterosexual, is. </div>[quote]

Not discussing Sex Changes here. Discussing Transexuals. I was making the point that since it's their body, if they want to go through an operation to feel more natural, it's their choice.

I have often heard such things discussed as unnatural and it is often as natural a want as some feel everyday.

My point is having the technology to help people who don't feel right about themselves is perhaps a good thing. Rather than the feeling it is "unnatural"...I feel that stands as a remark that is used to describe discomfort in such operations.

[Dragon Writer]

i don't have a problem with people wanting to change their gender (anyways, for those who believe in reincarnation, you HAVE to accept that eventually you're goging to end up in a gender you're not used to, and not ready for...so one day it might be YOU having that problem) but at the same time, in my oppinion, it woulld create it's own host of problems once you've done it. It's up to the person whether those problems are worth it.