Fred's Death

[estar9821]

I absolutely LOVED Fred...he was my favorite character in SYWTBAW. I cried when he blew his quanta. I know it was for good purpose, he helped save the planet, but I was hoping DD would keep him around for a few books or so. Anyone have any ideas on why he had to go?

[Cinnamon Wind]

It was kind of a logical conclusion... the whole book was really leading up to it. First of all, Nita had her dream about him at the beginning (I finally figured out that THAT was the precognitive event that started her ordeal that Tom was talking about in one of the later books). And right from the beginning he thought he was dead. And all the talk about how he always wanted to see a real planet, and the way he was the one who fell through the hole Nita and Kit made and just the way he was giving and helping them throughout the book kind of pointed to the fact that he was going to die.

[estar9821]

Yeah...well I can still be sad about it. Every book seems to have a character that's just there for that one book, to offer us a different prespective on the events, and Fred was that character for SYWTBAW.

[Nights Mistress]

He had to die because he got a nickname from the main characters.

...actually, as theories go, that's disturbingly plausible, given the fate of other people with nicknames. Dairine better watch out; she might be next!

[estar9821]

Oh wow, yeah. SPOLIER FOR DW BELOW: Highlight to see.

When you think about Fred, how he had a long name and was nicknamed and then died, then in DW Ed had a long name and was nicknamed and then died. wow......

[Garrett Fitzgerald]

That doesn't necessarily follow, though...

Doesn't Roshaun have a really long name too? And it seems clear that he's not exactly dead...

BTW, folks, remember that not everyone uses a white background here. Much more useful to use the [spoiler=white] tag instead. :-)

[Nights Mistress]

That doesn't necessarily follow, though...

Doesn't Roshaun have a really long name too? And it seems clear that he's not exactly dead...

BTW, folks, remember that not everyone uses a white background here. Much more useful to use the [spoiler=white] tag instead. :-)

Not necessarily! [Roshaun's name seems to be his given name and then a series of patronymics. Sker'ret and Filif get nicknames, but Roshaun seems to be called by his given name rather than just his entire family name, patronymics and all. Unless we count "Prince Unlikely" as a nickname, that is...]

It's a trend that holds out for certain definitions of dead.

[Ed and Fred meet the conventional meaning ...ish. Peach and Ponch meet the "they're gone" meaning (although Kit's nickname for Ponch being Paucho I think only gets mentioned once?) and Ronan only almost dies.]

There's probably more that I'll remember after I hit submit. Woe.

[estar9821]

Yeah, it seems to only really be a trend for the first two books. I don't remember it happening in the third, and I haven't read past the fourth book so far.
Okay, I'll be more careful about my colors from now on!

[kgirl1992]

I cried the first time I read it too, but he had good reason to go.

As I recall someone is lost in every book, it's one of the things I really like about the YW series people die, and not just red shirts.

[anotherBob]

Sacrifice is a popular theme for DD in this series. Think of how many characters do sacrifice themselves. I love both Fred's and the Lotus Esprit's sacrifice and tear up for each of them.

"First of all, Nita had her dream about him at the beginning (I finally figured out that THAT was the precognitive event that started her ordeal that Tom was talking about in one of the later books)."

Cinnamon, I never saw the dream as a precognition. In fact, reading this book after reading everything up through W@W, I saw the fist dream she had as something more like the peridexis. Nita's precognitive event was the spell that brought her and Kit into the other Manhattan when doing the spell to try and find it.

Bob

[kit13579]

i was so sad when fred blew his quanta. i really though that he would be around in the later books, too, so it came by surprise. he was one of my favorite characters in that book, and he was also sort of funny! i thought it would kind of be cool, and sometimes i think about this, if he somehow turned into a person, or at least he actually showed up later in the series. i mean they never even talk about him...ever again!

[LifeSong]

i mean they never even talk about him...ever again!

Actually, Fred is referred to more than once. The only time I can remember right now though, is in WD when Kit finds the "dragon's eye"/glede, in Ponch's universe, and for a moment he thinks it's "an old friend" and cups his hands around it, wondering if it'll glow brighter the way Fred did.

One of the hardest parts to bear about Fred's death is that it happens twice over...

[SpacePen]

pre-cog...

Sacrifice is a popular theme for DD in this series. Think of how many characters do sacrifice themselves. I love both Fred's and the Lotus Esprit's sacrifice and tear up for each of them.

"First of all, Nita had her dream about him at the beginning (I finally figured out that THAT was the precognitive event that started her ordeal that Tom was talking about in one of the later books)."

Cinnamon, I never saw the dream as a precognition. In fact, reading this book after reading everything up through W@W, I saw the fist dream she had as something more like the peridexis. Nita's precognitive event was the spell that brought her and Kit into the other Manhattan when doing the spell to try and find it.

Bob

I just went back to read the first book again (New Millenium Edition) after GWP because I wanted to see a few things, one of them being this "original" pre-cog event again. I think the dream about Fred in Timeheart at the beginning is the original pre-cognitive event.

Because the precognitive spell included Kit and Fred (no one seems to tell Kit "as I recall, your Ordeal started with a pre-cognitive event...") and the first trip to dark Manhattan seems more like a timeslide or something than a precognitive event. Because all of the other pre-cogs that we see Nita having are dreams, or visions, or meditations - not the results of a spell.

Though I do admit the results of the first spell are odd. They are shown - or taken to - dark Manhattan, apparently in the future when Nita's pen is there (i.e. a timeslide into the future) - or if not in the future (in which case her pen is not there), then their spell triggers an event (pulling in Fred) which will lead to getting Nita's pen (and Kit's 'aura') - almost as if the spell is prescient. Maybe because their Ordeal was - like Fred, perhaps - waiting for an opportune moment, an opportune spell - to plug itself into. (Do Ordeals wander into beginning wizard's spells like that?

BRIGHT-BOOK-ALLOW-THE-LONE-POWER-TO-CHANGE ORDEAL: "Oh! Hm, here's a couple of novice wizards who need an Ordeal AND are asking for a pen and an aura. Well, I can ... let's see... a SpacePen could be made into a moon-letter-writing-device if it spends some time in a white hole... I bet Peach'll to tell them they can make corrections... I know Fred's looking for a nexus that'll bring him to an Advisory... I bet I can get these two to open up a space big enough for Fred if I bump them into dark Manhattan, Fred can help them get the pen, and if they come through this alive, they'll have the pen and the aura to boot... OK, Aura/SpacePen/Fred/Bright Book/GO!"